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What WotC does better than other D20 studios. (mild rant)

diaglo

Adventurer
1edADnD first release was the Monster Manual in late 1977

then the PHB in 1978

then the DMG in 1979


then the campaign setting Greyhawk in 1980.

that's why i prefer OD&D (1974) all the rules in one boxed set. followed a year later by Supplements....possible campaign areas....like Greyhawk & Blackmoor...
 

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Artimoff

First Post
Re: Re: What WotC does better than other D20 studios. (mild rant)

Duncan Haldane said:


Oh, and, btw - Ravenloft first appear alot longer than 10 years ago - the first Ravenloft module was released before FR went to print.

Duncan

Ravenloft wasn't a setting back then, it was a module to drop into Greyhawk or any other homebrewed world. It didn't become a campain setting until 1990 ( about the same time as World of Darkness. Hmmm.. )
 

Artimoff

First Post
diaglo said:
1edADnD first release was the Monster Manual in late 1977

then the PHB in 1978

then the DMG in 1979


then the campaign setting Greyhawk in 1980.

that's why i prefer OD&D (1974) all the rules in one boxed set. followed a year later by Supplements....possible campaign areas....like Greyhawk & Blackmoor...


AD&D as a GAME didn't even exist untill the MM. Still prety stupid, IMO.
 


Tsyr

Explorer
Artimoff said:
Does anyone else wish that settings that D20 companies intend to produce for a long time start with a DM book, Player book and Monster book? Then they can add books for particular regions, religions and race/class. It just sounds like the profesional way to do things.

No.

Understand that, while I think BG is waaaaay overstating the point, he does, at least, have a point... Non WotC game lines are always going to have an uphill battle in front of them.

Release a monster book here, a magic book there, a book of prestige classes there, a modular, drop-in city there, and you have products that people not interested in the setting itself might buy. For example, I have no interest whatsoever in playing in The Scarred Lands... But I have bought both creature collections, Relics and Rituals 1, and I'm looking at some of the players guides. Had they tried to do that in some nice PHB/DMG/MM format, I probably wouldn't have bought any of them, or at best maybe the MM.
 

Wombat

First Post
I have yet to find a pre-packaged campaign setting that I like.

Really.

Wait, I tell a lie -- there was Alpha Complex :D Even that I changed heavily to suit my own nefarious needs.

So I tend to pick up material to supplement the settings I come up with. So what order the material comes out in makes little difference to me.

Forgotten Realms? Greyhawk? Scarred Lands? Midnight? Theah? Equally unimportant in my book.
 

der_kluge

Adventurer
I really, really doubt putting out a monster and magic book by S&SS was part of some tremendous strategy on their part. They put out a book as quickly as they could, and throwing together a bunch of crunchy bits is probably about the easiest way to do that. It took them longer to get the campaign setting stuff out, because it was probably just harder to write.

I don't care for any of it, actually, but YMMV.
 


BSF

Explorer
It is harder to write out a complex campaign world than to do the crunchy bits first. That is exactly why they do the crunchy bits. If the crunchy bits sell, you have cash flow. Cash flow is important for a business. With cash flow, you can afford to quit your day job and put forth more time to put together your campaign world. Otherwise, you end up working nights and weekends, crunching it all in between your day job duties, taking care of the family, taking care of the home, etc.

If you can't get the crunchy bits to sell, you drop the project and keep going with your homebrew campaign world the same as you did before you opened your d20 company.
 

Estlor

Explorer
With the Scarred Lands it was like this:

3e was new, the PHB and DMG had just come out, and suddenly the first real d20 release is the Creature Collection - a bit BEFORE the Monster Manual. Now, obviously SSS must have had access to a draft of the MM, otherwise they'd have even more errors in their monsters than they do. I bet they anticipated the disappointment the general public would have with the MM (fewer monsters, poor formatting, too few illustrations, illustrations that stunk) and figured the best thing to put out is a monster book. Fast-track it to get it out before the big MM and you've generated some buzz. People are going to snatch it up to get their hands on some monsters.

You KNOW you have an instant audience for your product, so you advertise what you really want to push - the setting. Granted, it's just bits and pieces here and there, but nevertheless, some of the Scarred Lands mythos seeps into the book. Lather, rinse, and repeat for the next most obviously sought after book (well, this is before the prestige class boom) and you've got Relics & Rituals (with a HUGE assist from open call writers).

Now then, two books in, one of two things have happened. People have read the bits about the Scarred Lands and become intrigued enough to purchase setting books, or people have determined they have no interest in the setting. It's a good plan. Come up with two must-have books, try to do it as cheaply and quickly as possible, and build some buzz.

Fantasy Flight games takes a slightly more traditional path with their settings - do a book for players that is half crunch and half fluff, then do a DM's book. But they're going for niches. You had a sci-fi futuristic campaign that was unlike everything out there in Dragonstar, which did build some buzz for them and probably sold a book or two more than they would have otherwise. Midnight went the route of whoring out Tolkien for all it was worth in perhaps the ultimate "what if" of the books. That gets some interest, and enough new things exist in the crunch side that you'll either buy into their book for that and get hooked on the setting, or buy into the setting and get hooked on the crunch.

Of course, consider the sources. WotC has a built in following based on the D&D brand name. They do enough generic crunch books (Manual of the Planes, Savage Species, Book of Vile Darkness, etc) that they can swing supporting Forgotten Realms (although it seems that hasn't been the mad bank they expected it to be).

S&SS may have the long arm of White Wolf and a host of other d20 publishers under their umbrella, but at the heart, S&SS only does Scarred Lands. When your revenue comes from the setting books only, you needs to spread it out into a lot of little books that are setting light and crunch heavy to pull other people in.

FFG pushes most of their support down the line of the crunch books, things like the "Path" books, Traps & Treatchery, etc - books with wider audience that generate higher revenue. On occasion we see a new release for one of their two campaign settings, but most of FFG's time is spent in pumping out new broad-appeal books.

The reality of it is a company that does not rely on sales of their setting material to turn a profit can be a bit bolder when it comes to the type of fluffy campaign material they release. They can afford the one or two book method where the crunch is about 1/3 of the material in the book. Companies that are tied directly to their setting must come up with a lot of new rules and crunch that an be dropped anywhere to entice people into buying the setting books.

Compare the FRCS to the Creature Collection to the Starfarer's Handbook/Midnight and you'll see the pattern develop.
 

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