What would you like to see brought back from older editions?

[heirodule]

Are we playing *men*, or are we playing our D&D high-level character who can fall 400' into a volcano and swim to the ledge to climb out of said volcano fantasy of a man? What are you asking here?

That's after you level into fantastic abilities. Maybe give men a level adjustment to make up for their advantages if you want

I guess I'm

1) Trying to argue that sexual dimorphism isn't the worst thing a game could have

2) avoid making logically contradictory things happen in gameworld design.

a) someone saying: The fort has 250 Warrior 1s, an equal mix of male and female, while the countryside is agrarian and the women would need to be home making kids to work the fields.

3) allowing a social dynamic that makes some amount of sense to exist.

if I look at a bar full of half-orcs, I know I'm facing creatures, on average, stronger and more dangerous than my PC. I evaluate accordingly.

Read the social descriptions of how gnomes and elves and goblins fight. They use stealth and superior numbers to avoid being killed by the stronger. That's reflected in their stats.

 

[AllisterH]

<troll>If theres no inherent advantage to playing a male, most players will play both equally.</troll> And that doesn't reflect a world were male domination would arise naturally. If we have to explain why elves don't have all the wizards, we also have to explain why women aren't half of all mediaval tech army battalions

Not really, because you're forgetting a fe things. Religion. magic and war.

Take the forgotten Realms for example. The creator deities of the Realms are a pair of sisters (selune and Shar). Their first creation was female (Chauntea) and (formerly) the most powerful of "their" children was female (Mystyl).

Good luck telling women in such a setting they can't be head clerics/paladins in such a world.

Then there's magic. Most D&D worlds tend to gloss over it but in D&D, it seems like the only thing preventing a person from becoming a magic-user is intelligence. You think in Greyhawk, Wee Jas is going to turn away female practioners?

Hell, no.

Then there's war. While quite true, the average women is weaker than the average man, the average man in the typical D&D world is supposed to fight off monsters MUCH, MUCH stronger than the difference between a man and a woman. Thus, there's less of an argument to keep the women at home.

Thus, if the TRUE paths of power, magic and religion, are gender blind, then you're not going to see a male dominated society.

 

[Malhost Zormaeril]

<troll>If theres no inherent advantage to playing a male, most players will play both equally.</troll> And that doesn't reflect a world were male domination would arise naturally. If we have to explain why elves don't have all the wizards, we also have to explain why women aren't half of all mediaval tech army battalions

Male domination arises from the fact that, in a world where infant mortality (as well as adult mortality) is pretty high, most women are tapped out being pregnant all the time. Gotta replenish that population! That means the guys are a bit overtaxed, working the fields and manning the levies all the time -- see here for a more in-depth look at it. Besides that, most difference in strength between men and women is mostly a height issue, and since D&D doesn't simulate strength variation by height, it shouldn't simulate strength variation by sex, either...

 

[Mouseferatu]

Probably ... Ravenloft, as well.

If you count fiction, not just RPG books, you're getting at least some of what you want.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Why don't you like Morale values for monsters?

I always thought it was an excellent bit of additional information for the DM; knowing that monster X was fanatic, while monster Y was cowardly was wonderful for helping DM's to play a varied palette of monsters. Without it, the temptation is surely there for all monsters to effectively have fanatic morale.

I don't mind some element of the descriptions/flavor text including this detail. What I object to is any mechanical implementation of morale, like a morale score or roll. It's one of those things that I feel should be up to the DM, not the dice.

That said, of all the suggestions that were making me cringe, this one induced the least cringing.

 

[GreatLemur]

I'd like to see clerics and other divine characters more heavily influenced by their deity. Not to the extent of the old spheres, but more so than domains.

I basically only clicked on this thread to say "specialty priests". That's the one thing I miss about 2e. Hell, I might even go so far as to say that the sphere system didn't go far enough.

Burly isn't the word I'd use.

I'm not sure why you'd use the word "muscles", either.

Red Sonja ain't got a Strength of 20. Now, Brienne of Tarth...

And that doesn't reflect a world were male domination would arise naturally. If we have to explain why elves don't have all the wizards, we also have to explain why women aren't half of all mediaval tech army battalions

Hell, in my game, they are. "Male domination" seems like a bad setting assumption to hobble yourself with, anyway.

 

[barsoomcore]

I've known darned few women that could really take a punch.

You know, maybe you don't want to be admitting this is something you're an expert on. I'm just saying.

 

[JDJblatherings]

You know, maybe you don't want to be admitting this is something you're an expert on. I'm just saying.

I did clarify this by pointing out it was in martial arts and other sports fighting right? Plenty of skilled women and most of them can kick my ass by aspect of being skilled and fast mostly not by being able to endure being hit.

I know on lady who fought on in a wapons match with a broken hand, rib and jaw before judges realized how seriously she was injured and pulled her. So she is an exception (among most folks) that shows adventurer types wether male or female should have the same range of stats because heroic adventurers are the exception.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

That's baloney really. I've known darned few women that could really take a punch. Sure there are a couple that could really take multiple blows but they are the exception not the rule. This fighting /martial arts territory I'm speaking of not domestic abuse.

Dunno, take a man and a woman of equal height, mass (especially muscle mass), and training, and I'm pretty sure you'll see an equal fight as well. On the other hand, if you have a woman of 110 lbs trying to absorb the punches a 190 lbs guy dishes out, you will of course see a discrepancy.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm not happy with the way the "female-related" discussion is going in this thread, so lets have an end to that and stick to things that you would like to see come back from older editions.

If there is some problem with this, don't hesitate to email me.

Thanks