Majin
First Post
I've been away from the game for awhle but will be starting up a new 4th edition campaign tonight with a few close friends. Naturally I've been browsing a number of forums and new products to get a feel for what's new since I left. (Right before Essentials was released IIRC)
Now there's been some animosity towards 4th edition since before it was ever released, that's normal with every new edition, but the amount of hate I've come across on this and other forums seems to be at a level I've never seen before. So I've been searching to find out why and I'm still confused. Here seems to be the main issues I've come across in some form or another so far:
Essentials Fallout
This was what I imagined to be the culprit before I even left the last time. I myself was wary of what Essentials was going to do to 4E, but from what I've seen so far it really does seem to be an option for 4E which you can easily leave out of your campaigns. For myself, I'm happy to leave it in if my players want to try out one of the class variants as the CB seems to be able to take care of all the dirty work for me.
So my question here is: Was it really that bad? Did it kill 4E?
DDI Support
I've been playing around in my DDI Toolbox since I've returned getting a feel for what's changed. I'm a little disappointed that the CB & AT's are online only now. I'm quite irritated actually by the removal of the "Copy to RTF" function the Monster Builder allowed me before which made converting modules/monsters so much easier.
The consensus seems to be that the newer versions have less functionality than the old... and? Anything else? I agree this is disheartening but not enough to generate so much hate? Right?
4E is Dead - 5E on the horizon?
For one reason or another, this usually goes un-defended but people simply claim it's dead in passing as if it's a foregone conclusion. Occasionally people chime in to say they're expecting 5th edition to be coming out sometime in the next year or two so they've lost interest in 4E.
I just don't understand this kind of position at all, but it's really part of the reason I've made this thread, to get a better idea of why people think the game sucks so much nowadays.
<Insert your pet system here> is so much better so 4E sucks
I'm sure I won't be surprising anyone here that Pathfinder is usually between those brackets but other systems can sneak their way in there from time to time. Just recently Pathfinder has been making the news with claims of outselling 4E and I'm sure PF fanboys are still in some state of orgasmic ecstacy they've yet to return from after reading this news. Once they've come down they may say that this is proof that 4E sucks so bad. That WotC failed, etc. etc.
I'm by no means a D&D fanboy. I've thought about trying Pathfinder, as I have a fondness for the 3.x ruleset and that edition of D&D got the most play out of me of all previous editions. If anything I'm attracted to their adventure paths so I've thought long and hard as to whether I'd be willing to switch over. I like both systems. I'm not sure if it's taboo around here but I really like 4th edition's powers system but I'm also nostalgic for the 3.x days. I just don't have the time for two systems though with work, family and all my other hobbies so I really think the most likely outcome here is me converting adventure path stuff to 4E in the long run.
Anyway, off that tangent and back to the point. Does the current perception/claim that Pathfinder has started to surpass D&D in sales a bad omen for the future of D&D? Or just WotC's involvement in its development? Does it lend any credence to my original question?
Final Thoughts
I guess what I'd really like to hear is some constructive criticism on why 4th edition "sucks". If you used to play what made you stop? If you're thinking of leaving the system or have found yourself playing less lately why is that? (Only if the reason relates to some aspect(s) of the system that you don't like please.)
Nothing anyone can say will make me change my mind at this point, that's not what I'm looking for with writing this but I am really interested in getting and overview of how WotC has handled this edition and the details on what people dislike the most.
Now there's been some animosity towards 4th edition since before it was ever released, that's normal with every new edition, but the amount of hate I've come across on this and other forums seems to be at a level I've never seen before. So I've been searching to find out why and I'm still confused. Here seems to be the main issues I've come across in some form or another so far:
Essentials Fallout
This was what I imagined to be the culprit before I even left the last time. I myself was wary of what Essentials was going to do to 4E, but from what I've seen so far it really does seem to be an option for 4E which you can easily leave out of your campaigns. For myself, I'm happy to leave it in if my players want to try out one of the class variants as the CB seems to be able to take care of all the dirty work for me.
So my question here is: Was it really that bad? Did it kill 4E?
DDI Support
I've been playing around in my DDI Toolbox since I've returned getting a feel for what's changed. I'm a little disappointed that the CB & AT's are online only now. I'm quite irritated actually by the removal of the "Copy to RTF" function the Monster Builder allowed me before which made converting modules/monsters so much easier.
The consensus seems to be that the newer versions have less functionality than the old... and? Anything else? I agree this is disheartening but not enough to generate so much hate? Right?
4E is Dead - 5E on the horizon?
For one reason or another, this usually goes un-defended but people simply claim it's dead in passing as if it's a foregone conclusion. Occasionally people chime in to say they're expecting 5th edition to be coming out sometime in the next year or two so they've lost interest in 4E.
I just don't understand this kind of position at all, but it's really part of the reason I've made this thread, to get a better idea of why people think the game sucks so much nowadays.
<Insert your pet system here> is so much better so 4E sucks
I'm sure I won't be surprising anyone here that Pathfinder is usually between those brackets but other systems can sneak their way in there from time to time. Just recently Pathfinder has been making the news with claims of outselling 4E and I'm sure PF fanboys are still in some state of orgasmic ecstacy they've yet to return from after reading this news. Once they've come down they may say that this is proof that 4E sucks so bad. That WotC failed, etc. etc.
I'm by no means a D&D fanboy. I've thought about trying Pathfinder, as I have a fondness for the 3.x ruleset and that edition of D&D got the most play out of me of all previous editions. If anything I'm attracted to their adventure paths so I've thought long and hard as to whether I'd be willing to switch over. I like both systems. I'm not sure if it's taboo around here but I really like 4th edition's powers system but I'm also nostalgic for the 3.x days. I just don't have the time for two systems though with work, family and all my other hobbies so I really think the most likely outcome here is me converting adventure path stuff to 4E in the long run.
Anyway, off that tangent and back to the point. Does the current perception/claim that Pathfinder has started to surpass D&D in sales a bad omen for the future of D&D? Or just WotC's involvement in its development? Does it lend any credence to my original question?
Final Thoughts
I guess what I'd really like to hear is some constructive criticism on why 4th edition "sucks". If you used to play what made you stop? If you're thinking of leaving the system or have found yourself playing less lately why is that? (Only if the reason relates to some aspect(s) of the system that you don't like please.)
Nothing anyone can say will make me change my mind at this point, that's not what I'm looking for with writing this but I am really interested in getting and overview of how WotC has handled this edition and the details on what people dislike the most.