I find the difference fairly clear. Pre-4e material treats the mythic component as a subject matter to be explored. In Planescape, there is a lot of metaplot around that.
4e treats the mythic component as a source of conflict. The PCs - via race, class, paragon path or epic destiny - are located in the middle of it. It's not about discovery. It's about transformation.
Thank you. I'd wondered how to express this (and would XP you if I could). Because although it's true that older editions have the mythological, if I want to play someone from Celtic Myth like
Cu Chulainn or one of the heroes of the
Water Margin in pre-4e I might as well go whistle with very few exceptions. AD&D high level fighters may be quantitatively better than lower level ones but other than quite ridiculous endurance there is nothing they can do that lower level ones can't do in theory.
In 4e you are playing a character that is part of those myths. You probably won't be able to play Cu Chulainn before epic, but I wouldn't consider the way he approaches the world to be out of synch with a 4e character.
When pre-4e is mythic it normally means "We have stats for Odin, for Zeus, for Osiris, and for a vast range of other mythologican figures". Where 4e is mythic it normally means "The stories generated in 4e are very like those in myth with the main players being the PCs." Very different approaches to mythology.
I think this summarizes a lot of the difference. Also, I'd like to link to the 2E entry on elementals for a second:
http://mmadnd.chat.ru/MM00086.htm
Elementals are sentient beings that can possess bodies made of one of the four basic elements that make up the Prime Material plane -- air, earth, fire, or water. They normally reside on an elemental Inner Plane and will only be encountered on the Prime Material plane if they are summoned by magical means. (See Manual of the Planes for more information on the nature of the various elemental planes.) Each elemental must adopt a shell in the Prime Material composed of the basic element it represents. and once this shell is destroyed, the elemental will return to its native plane. While there are many more powerful and more intelligent residents of the elemental planes, the common elemental is the easiest to contact, and therefore the most frequently summoned.
Their magical nature gives elementals great protection from attacks on the Prime Material plane. Elementals are not harmed by any nonmagical weapons or magical weapons of less than +2 bonus. Creatures with under four Hit Dice and without any magical abilities cannot harm an elemental either. (Magical abilities include such characteristics as breath weapons, poisons, paralysis, or even being immune to normal weapon attacks.) Orcs, for example, are powerless against a conjured elemental unless one happens to possess a weapon with +2 or better bonus to hit.
Though elementals do enjoy protection from many nonmagical attacks in the Prime Material plane, like all extraplanar and conjured creatures, elementals are affected by protection from evil spells. An elemental cannot strike a creature protected by this spell and must recoil from the spell's boundaries. However, the elemental can attack creatures protected by the spell as long as it doesn't touch them. For example, a fire elemental could set the ground on fire around the creature and wait for the blaze to spread.
Each of the four types of common elemental has its own particular strengths and weaknesses, attack modes and method of movement, depending on its plane of origin. These will be covered individually, by elemental type, in the next few pages. All common elementals share one major characteristic, however. They are basically stupid. This low intelligence makes it difficult for the elemental to resist a magical summons. But even the common elemental is bright enough to know it does not like being taken off of its home plane and held in the Prime Material plane.
It's just so... dry. It's not 1E dry, but it's pretty matter of fact and blase. Here's this amazing thing. It's... uh... kinda stupid. And it's elemental so it acts like its element.
The 4E description is much cleaner and much more exciting. It makes me want to include elementals in my campaign, not make me want to skip to the next page.
To underline this, here are some selected sections from the 4e Monster Vault text (the MM1 doesn't have elementals mostly because previous versions of elementals were dull.)
Description:
It appears as a shard of raw elemental energy that threatens to break apart at any moment.
Now I don't know about you, but to me that line alone tells me everything the picture does not. It ells me how they move.
Motivation:
Creatures of Destruction: With nothing to goven their actions, elementals act randomly, burning tearing, or smashing whatever they come across.
...
Elementals are sometimes captured and bound into service, allowing a spellcaster to funnel their elemental energy into spells or devices. Attempts to control elementals ofen end in disaster when the binder loses control allowing the elemental to run amok.
Invaders from the Elemental Chaos: An elemental that is not summoned might enter the world through a planar event ... If a settlement is near the location of such an event, [things are going to get messy with a description of how]
...
Weapons of Primordial Power:
...
Regardlessof whether the speculation of scholars true, elementals seem built to be weapons and tools. They lack intelligence and ambition making thm the perfect servants of those who want to act without secrecy and without fear of betrayal.
Well, that's how and why to use them - wandering monsters and bound servants. Beats the hell out of anything 2e offered above. But what if we want to kick it up a gear?
Weapons of Primordial Power: Some scholars believe that elementals, belying their chaotic nature, act under the guidance of higher powersw. These sages assert that the primordials, the undisputed masters of elemental power, use elementals as tools in the world because they are unable to act from their prsions. Aln elemental attack on a distant outpost might seem like an isolated occurrance until someone realises that each outpost along the border has suffered a simmilar attack. Perhaps the realm contains an ancient secret to help free one of the primorials, or perhaps it is a baeacon of light and order in an otherwise dark and chaotic world. Alternatively, a spellcaster might find the summoning and binding of many powerful elementals to be a simple task, only to discover that the elementals allowed themselves to be bound in order to escape and sabotage a planar ritual, throwing open a portal to the Elemental Chaos.
And there's our campaign if we want it. It doesn't have to be true. But those earth elementals? Pointers to
Ogremoch. Or the fire elementals? Signs
Imix is getting restless. Want to mix and match? Both Ogremoch and Imix believe they serve the first Primordial, the Elder Elemental Eye - which is, in fact, the Chained God
Tharizdun. And there you have your metaplot if you want it (this is all 4e canon cosmology). If you don't, it can still be happening anyway. Or not.
Anyone still prepared to claim that the 2e fluff is more inspiring?
Here's 2E being mythic. Perhaps you can grasp my problems with this:
Habitat/Society: Titans are livers of life, creators of fate. These benevolent giants are closer to the well springs of life than mere mortals and, as such, revel in their gigantic existences. Titans are wild and chaotic. They are prone to more pronounced emotions that humans and can experience godlike fits of rage. They are, however, basically good and benevolent, so they tend not to take life. They are very powerful creatures and will fight with ferocity when necessary.
To some, titans seem like gods. With their powers they can cause things to happen that, surely, only a god could. They are fiery and passionate, displaying emotions with greater purity and less reservation than mortal beings. Titans are quick to anger, but quicker still to forgive. In fits of rage they destroy mountains and in moments of passion will create empires. They are in all ways godlike and in all ways larger than life.
And yet is should be noted that titans are not gods. They are beings that make their home in Olympus and walk among the gods. Yet they are not omnipotent, omniscient rulers of the planes. Sometimes their godlike passions and godlike rages make them seem like deities, however, and it is common for whole civilizations to mistake them for deities.
In one society, Jeuron, a titan with dominion over knowledge, was revered as a god for centuries. Those mortals built their whole civilization around him and Jeuron revelled in the worship. He even walked among them occasionally to see their love and admiration. But Odin, of the Norse mythos, discovered his deception and punished Jeuron by shackling him to the bottom of the deepest sea for 100 years.
Titans have a natural affinity for storm giants. Those giants are the closest beings the titans have found to peers and they will readily befriend them. In any group of titans, there is a 35% chance that they will be accompanied by one or more storm giants. Although titans can sometimes be condescending by nature, they never treat the storm giants as subordinates or inferiors.
On Olympus, titans have developed a culture similar to what they found there. They wear similar clothing, eat similar foods, play similar music, etc. It is unclear why this has occurred. Perhaps the titans, in a godlike whim, adopted their favorite mortal lifestyle. Such would not be unusual for these great beings.
Titans primarily dwell in great palaces and mansions in Olympus where they live their lives whimsically. There they will dance, sing, study, debate and engage in all other manner of activities with titanic proportion. If a titan finds something that interests him, it would not be unusual for him to study it in great detail for many weeks, only to leave it when his interest has waned. They may also engage in debates or arguments that last literally for weeks at a time. These debates might end in a jovial laughter and good spirits or in thunder and rage. Such are the whims of titans.
Maybe X. But maybe Y. 35% chance of Z (why are there percentages in my mythology? QQ). They sing they dance, but what do they do in a campaign? No idea.
It's just uninspiring.
Now let's kick it up a notch. 4e Monster Vault.
Giant
These massive humaoids once ruled the world beside the primordials. Now they dominate petty kingdoms and crusy any who oppose their tyrannical reign.
Shortly after the world emerged from the smoldering forges of the primordials, titans stepped forth to help explore and shape the new creation. They walked atop the world's still-cooling crust and swam through its churning seas, yet even in their immensity, the titans were too few to explore the vast world. They created giants as a servant race, modeling them to resemble the titans' own elemental natures. With the aid of the giants, the titans spread out across the world. In time the giants enslaved some of the neascent races of the gods, most notably the dwarves. Under the giants' steady gazes and heavy hands, these industrious slaves brought beauty and refinement to the world.
A Shattered Legacy:
...
The blow that finally crippled the giants came from a source the creatures never predicted. The dwarves, who had maintained their secret devotion to Moradin for many years, rose up agianst their masters, unleashing the fury of a hundred generations of repression.
The giants and titans still covet the power they once posessed, and they have never forgiven the dwarves' betrayal.
Born from Furor: Giants stride about the planes, crafting castles in the highest cloouds and building citadels in the darkest stretches of the Underdark. The most common types of giants in the world are hill giants, fire giants, and frost giants.
...
Titanic Leaders: Titans believe themselves to be the firstborn of creation, and they seek to emulate their primordial creators. They shape imitations of the world from the raw pieces of the Elemental Chaos. Unlike efreets they do not try to impose order on the regions they control. Instead the titans revel in the entropic jumble of elemental forces.
A titan realm might contain places where the Elemental Chaos erupts into the world, spilling into the heart of an active volcano, into the midst of a permanent storm, or into the deepest reaches of a frozen wasteland. In the world, these areas are usually populated by giants. Through these natural planar connections, giants and titans can wreak havoc upon nearby realms, conquering vast tracts of land until someone stops them by closing the portal or slaying their chief.
Now that's mythic. And it's mythic in a way that says the myths are still being written. Both myths of Ragnarok and myths like Jack and the Beanstalk.
The best, total, you can still throw up your protestations, does not make it so.
And throwing up absolutely nothing to support yours doesn't even come close to making it so.
