D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

[Derren]

So, here's the distinction I would make.

5e does not have a great deal of official support for spending your gold. A lot (A LOT) of it is up to the table. Whether that is a feature, or a bug, is really your call.

Now, there are numerous sources that can be used that provide pricing for all sorts of things. These can be found on the 'net, in books, and of course on the DM's Guild. These are all in addition to the very loose rules provide by WoTC.

Personally, I appreciate that type of DIY mechanism.* Especially for this aspect of the game. If you don't, that's cool too. I would recommend using one of the many 3PP to suit your needs, as I do not believe we are likely to see a comprehensive and official product any time soon.


* I fully admit that part of the reason I am not bothered, at all, by this is because I have decades of experience pricing this out for my campaigns, and any official system beyond the basic D&D equipment price list would be useless to me. YMMV.

It was a stroke of genius from WotC that they managed to sell "not doing their work" as an advantage. If they had provided actual uses for gold as part of the rules you could still DIY by houseruling them. And if you were happy with WotC there would be no need for any extra work or spending from your part.
Instead WotC expects the customers to fill in the blanks when they delivered rules with a lot of holes (for the same price than fully fleshed out rules, naturally) and even expect (and get) praise for it.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Shasarak]

"And downtime, in my experience is not that. It could be an entertaining mini-game, much like character building is, if the choices you made during downtime had an impact during uptime."

That's why I used exact quotes.

Good bye!

If it is an exact quote then why does yours have spelling mistakes that his does not?

Good bye!

 

[Charlaquin]

But .... it seems reductive, because the way you play, to others, does come off like that.

Wow. So, you’re just going to demean my play style, and when I point out that what you said is demeaning, your response is “yeah, because that’s what the way you play is like”?... just... Wow, is all I can say to that.

Don’t ask for empathy for your play style if you’re unwilling to extend that same courtesy to others.

Dude, it's not bad. I mean, to you, the things other people find fun, aren't fun. THAT'S OKAY! Seriously. You can say that you find "decision points" interesting, and that this is "up time" and use whatever other language you want, but .... and I mean this nicely, you don't play the same way everyone else does.

I understand that I don’t play the same way everyone else does, and I am fine with that. It seems to be you who refuses to accept that someone else’s referred play style be a little more nuanced than “killing monsters and collecting loot.”

You can't comprehend how "choices you made during donwtime had an impact during uptime." To me ... that doesn't make any sense at all. It is the equivalent of nonsensical word salad. Because that's not the style of game I have played for so many years now.

Downtime is a very explicitly defined part of the game. If the stuff that happens during that part of the game doesn’t have an effect on the rest of the game, then it doesn’t interest me personally. You don’t have to agree with me about that, but to pretend you don’t understand it is just being obtuse.

I can hire people to accompany the party.

Actually, that’s a pretty good point. That’s a use for gold that is relevant while adventuring. Of course, if it’s the only use for it, then those of us who find adventuring to be the most engaging part of the game don’t really have much in the way of a decision to make.

I can hire specialists. I can hire sages to research areas I am going into. I can build a keep so that I can keep an eye on disputed border territory I am adventuring in.

You sure can. And when you’re in dungeons fighting dragons (or wherever else you like to do your adventuring), how do those things affect your decision-making in dramatically tense moments?

It's all the same, in my games.

For you ... you get your fun in a different way. That's cool. So I will reiterate what I ended with and you ignored:

"Work with your DM and come up with a system to spend your money (magic items, "training" for skills or abilities, that sort of thing) that lets you just do what you want to do."

I mean, I generally am the DM, so “work with your DM” isn’t really useful advice to me. But that aside, it’s not really advice, so much as an obvious platitude. Yes, I know that DMs and players working together to make the game work in a way that is most satisfying for the group is the solution to every problem that might occur in D&D. That doesn’t mean the problem doesn’t exist (read: for some people. I know it isn’t a problem for everyone). Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to express something like “the rules are not well-suited to my play style in this area, any advice on how to deal with it?” to be met with “lol, silly munchkin, D&D is a role playing game, not a roll playing game! Your problems don’t matter, not everyone plays the same way you do, go talk to your DM about it.”??? If you don’t see a problem, that’s great! Go enjoy the game the way you enjoy it, and leave those of us who do see a problem to come up with solutions on our own. Stop butting in yo the conversation to make fun of the way we play. You’re not helping, you’re just detailing what could have been a productive conversation so we can have another 300 page argument about whether or not a roleplaying game should have rules.

Go have fun. Enjoy yourself. Figure it out. You'll have more fun playing the game the way you like, than trying to convince me that I will agree with you (protip: I won't).

I’m not trying to convince you to agree with me. I don’t care that you play the game differently than I do. YOU go have fun and enjoy yourself, WE’RE here trying to figure it out together, and all you’re doing is distracting us with reductive and demeaning mischaracterizations of the reasons we feel the need to figure it out. You’re making fun of us and then when we defend ourselves, you’re reprimanding is for not respecting that other people have different play styles.

 

[Charlaquin]

Welp, looks like Lowkey has blocked me. What is up with people who don’t like rules making fun of people who do, chastising us for being intolerant of their playstyle when we defend our own, and then blocking us when we point it out? Whatever, hopefully they enjoy their echo chamber.

 

[Shasarak]

Welp, looks like Lowkey has blocked me. What is up with people who don’t like rules making fun of people who do, chastising us for being intolerant of their playstyle when we defend our own, and then blocking us when we point it out? Whatever, hopefully they enjoy their echo chamber.

It was obvious that he did not understand what you were talking about with making difficult choices with significant consequences.

I think one good example that I have seen in this thread was the player who spent all their money to rebuild their destroyed town as opposed to lowkeys example of spending all their money to make themselves better at adventuring.

 

[Maxperson]

If Fighter was the only class that had any abilities that could be used outside of downtime, this might be a fitting analogy. And I’m that case, I wouldn’t blame my players for always choosing Fighter. In fact, I would share their frustration that the other classes were pointless.

Not so. My analogy was fitting, because in both cases it's the players choosing what to, or not to buy/play.

No magic item market in 5e by default is one of the major differences. And I would agree that’s a good thing, if there was anything else with mechanical benefits that affect uptime to spend gold on, but there isn’t. Another is the near complete lack of upgrades for nonmagical equipment. You pretty much get the best stuff available in your starting equipment package. Maybe you upgrade to silk rope over hemp rope and studded leather over leather after your first adventure. If you’re a heavy armor user, maybe you upgrade from chainmail to half-plate once and half-plate to full-plate once. After that, there are no expenses left that make any difference while you’re adventuring.

3e, and maybe 4e were the only editions to have magic marts. 1e, 2e and 5e have them if the DM puts them in. Even in 5e, though it says the DM has to put in the sale of magic items, it does go into ways for the DM to do so. So it encourages both methods, even though no magic marts is the default.

That makes it easier to know what the players want to spend their gold on. It doesn’t suddenly make the things they want to spend their gold on relevant to the adventure. The DM could make it relevant to the adventure, but that’s more DM-side work.

This might be a philosophical difference in our playstyles. In my game, if the players have their PCs start figuring out how to build a temple in town, it is automatically part of the adventure and very relevant to it. I run a sandbox game, so what the PCs do IS the adventure. I come up with some hooks and ideas if the players want to follow them, but they are free to pursue, not pursue, or stop pursuit of anything they are doing and go do something else. It takes absolutely no work on my part for anything they spend their money on to be relevant.

 

[Charlaquin]

Not so. My analogy was fitting, because in both cases it's the players choosing what to, or not to buy/play.

Yes, but your analogy ignored the fact that only some things you can spend gold on has mechanical effects, whereas all classes have mechanical effects.

3e, and maybe 4e were the only editions to have magic marts.

Yeah, but there weren’t a lot of people complaining about 1e and 2e on the internet, given the lack of internet at the time.

1e, 2e and 5e have them if the DM puts them in.

Work on the DM’s part.

Even in 5e, though it says the DM has to put in the sale of magic items, it does go into ways for the DM to do so. So it encourages both methods, even though no magic marts is the default.

I’m going to have to disagree that it encourages magic marts, but ok.

This might be a philosophical difference in our playstyles. In my game, if the players have their PCs start figuring out how to build a temple in town, it is automatically part of the adventure and very relevant to it. I run a sandbox game, so what the PCs do IS the adventure.

Yeah, philosophical difference is a good way to put it. You call that a sandbox, I’d call it a “find the fun” game. As a player, I hate when DMs do this, and as a DM, I wouldn’t want to put my players through it.

I come up with some hooks and ideas if the players want to follow them, but they are free to pursue, not pursue, or stop pursuit of anything they are doing and go do something else.

Well, sure, that’s the nature of D&D. But in my experience, players don’t generally abandon adventures they’re still engaged in. If this sort of meandering from one goal to another without completing them was a common occurrence in a game I was running, I would be very concerned that I wasn’t holding their interest.

It takes absolutely no work on my part for anything they spend their money on to be relevant.

So, if we’re storming the evil princes castle, how exactly do you make the fact that I maintained an aristocratic lifestyle during the last month of downtime relevant?

 

[Grainger]

I have only DM'ed one session, but at the end of that session, people asked me what the point of gold is, I point them to the purchasable items, but they said that the items seem pretty cheap and they're likely to fill out their gear sooner or later.

Since I haven't ran a game for long, I want to ask about gold use in the later levels, what do you use it for?

Example: Save up, hire an army, overthrow the King.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, but your analogy ignored the fact that only some things you can spend gold on has mechanical effects, whereas all classes have mechanical effects.

As we figured out above, the fact that the DM has to create a forumula(mechanic) for how much gold it takes, as well as a formula(mechanic) for the effect it has, spending gold does in fact have mechanical effects. That they are not listed in the book like classes doesn't change that. In both cases it's player choice, and in both cases there is mechanical effect.

Yeah, but there weren’t a lot of people complaining about 1e and 2e on the internet, given the lack of internet at the time.

I played with a lot of people during those years, both at home and at conventions where I both played and watched D&D games. Not once did I ever hear a complaint. It wasn't the lack of internet. More likely the complaining started after the advent of the over regulated 3e and 4e games.

Work on the DM’s part.

Everything the DM does is work on the DM's part, even if there are rules for it in the books.

I’m going to have to disagree that it encourages magic marts, but ok.

It supports magic item sales. If it didn't, it wouldn't go out of the way to mention to DMs that they can do it, and then give them ideas on how to go about it.

Yeah, philosophical difference is a good way to put it. You call that a sandbox, I’d call it a “find the fun” game. As a player, I hate when DMs do this, and as a DM, I wouldn’t want to put my players through it.

And if I were in a game and the game didn't go where I moved it, that game would be railroading me. I won't do that to my players.

Well, sure, that’s the nature of D&D. But in my experience, players don’t generally abandon adventures they’re still engaged in. If this sort of meandering from one goal to another without completing them was a common occurrence in a game I was running, I would be very concerned that I wasn’t holding their interest.

It doesn't happen often, but I do see it happen when the adventures don't appeal to the PCs.

So, if we’re storming the evil princes castle, how exactly do you make the fact that I maintained an aristocratic lifestyle during the last month of downtime relevant?

The same way I would make a fighter relevant during a wizarding contest at the county fair. The same way that I would make a ring of feather falling relevant in the middle of a desert. The same way I would make a sword relevant during a purely social encounter. The same way I would make the ability to see in the dark relevant when outside during the day.

I wouldn't. Mechanics don't have to be relevant at all times and in all situations. Just for the sake of argument, though, if the PCs get caught, the evil prince might be more predisposed to capture rather than kill aristocrats. He might also be more willing to talk before the big fight, spilling his plans. And so on. So there you go, my forumulae(mechanical effects) for maintaining an aristocratic lifestyle.