What's the point of the Eldritch Knight PrC?

[Zweischneid]

All EK builds sbould have one level of Runesmith to completely remove ALL ASF. You've got to be a dwarf RAW, though.

Actually any Wizard should get a few levels of Runesmith!

A little 5-level dip with full caster progression, d6 hit dice and two good saves is too good to pass up, even without the added bonus of being able to cast Spells in full plate at no obvious drawback (unlike other classes, you can move yourself around with magic anyways.. don't worry about weight or check penalty), produce instant exp & cash-free, usable by anyone spell-scrolls (err.. runes I mean) and turn some spellslots into spelllike abilities (at a 1 spellslot for 2 spelllike abilities ratio= double your efficiency on the spells you use almost daily anyways!!!!)

 

[Thanee]

So, every wizard should be a dwarf?

About the number of Fighter levels with Eldritch Knight... I wouldn't really consider anything but 1, why pick more than that?

Ok, I can see 2 and 4 for the bonus feats, if you have a "feat heavy concept" (i.e. want to have Whirlwind Attack or somesuch), but other than that, the faster spell progression is much more valuable to me.

Of course, I see it more as a spellcaster with added fighting capabilities than the other way around.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Zappo]

EK is flavorless by design. Noone said that all PrCs have to carry their own flavor. It exists to fix a rules issue where multiclass casters are underpowered.

What about the bladesinger? At 6th level you get: intelligence to AC (up to +6), a free quickened spell, and you can wear a light armor with no ASF. You can use a buckler, and since you're not holding anything with that hand you don't even get the to-hit penalty. Make a medium armor and buckler in mithral and you're looking at a pretty good AC with no spellcasting penalty. And you only need one wizard level (though I use two for the extra spellcasting).

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

You know, I *like* the fact that the Eldritch Knight is unemcumbered by flavor. That makes it sooo much easier to re-use it for more than one purpose in my homebrew world.

Seconded! I'm planning to play a fighter/wizard/eldritch knight quarterstaff fighting specialist in an upcoming campaign. The PrC lets me design the kind of character I want without having to try to shoehorn the character into some predetermined archetype. I get good BAB and good spellcasting, and no trade-offs that pay for weird powers that don't suit my character concept. Having around a few "plain vanilla" PrCs to match the "plain vanilla" base classes like fighter and wizard gives you a lot of room to maneuver.

edit:

I'm pretty sure the 4 fighter level thing is for weapon specialization. I know that's why my staff fighter's going that route. Double weapon + weapon spec. = ouchy.

 

[Klaus]

Compare the EK to a Ftr/Wiz build:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special HD Skill Points
F1 +1 2 0 0 Bonus Feat, Wpn/Armor Prof. d10 2
F1/W1 +1 2 0 2 Scribe Scroll, Familiar, +1 spell level d4 2
F2/W1 +2 3 0 2 Bonus Feat d10 2
F2/W2 +3 3 0 3 +1 spell level d4 2
F3/W2 +4 3 1 4 d10 2
F3/W3 +4 4 2 4 +1 spell level d4 2
F4/W3 +5 4 2 4 Bonus Feat d10 2
F4/W4 +5 4 2 5 +1 spell level d4 2
F5/W4 +6 5 2 5 d10 2
F5/W5 +7 5 2 5 Bonus Metamagic Feat, +1 spell lvl d4 2

This would be a PrClass with no prerequisites, that offers (rounded) "d7" Hit Dice, Good Fort & Will, poor Reflex, Medium BAB. Over 10 levels it offers: proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, +5 spellcasting levels, 3 bonus combat feats, Scribe Scroll, 1 bonus item creation or metamagic feat and a Familiar that improves (at half class level). All for zero prerequisites.

 

[JoeGKushner]

When playing, I'm not too crazy about PrCs. They often have forced restrictions in exchange for some 'cool' abilities.

The Eldritch Knight is pretty standard and allows me to continue playing my characters as a wizard with some martial bent. The fort saves help when fighting other wizards who might have spells of the necromantic variety too!

Right now I'm a Fighter 1 - Wizard 4 and after my 5th level of Wizard, I'm going into the PrC and if the game goes long enough, stay in there for the whole whole of the time and then go back into the wizard.

 

[Malin Genie]

Well, the Dwarf Fighter 6/Dwarven Defender 4

Don't you need BAB +7 to qualify for Dwarven Defender?

 

[Marimmar]

Don't you need BAB +7 to qualify for Dwarven Defender?

Yes, you do. He probably thought that the +1 BAB from Dwaven Defender allows him to take the class. Just like raising an ability score to gain access to a Feat. Sounds silly but it happens sometimes when you're thinking too much about something.

~Marimmar

 

[Fedifensor]

Compare the EK to a Ftr/Wiz build:
...
F5/W5 +7 5 2 5 Bonus Metamagic Feat, +1 spell lvl d4 2

This would be a PrClass with no prerequisites, that offers (rounded) "d7" Hit Dice, Good Fort & Will, poor Reflex, Medium BAB. Over 10 levels it offers: proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, +5 spellcasting levels, 3 bonus combat feats, Scribe Scroll, 1 bonus item creation or metamagic feat and a Familiar that improves (at half class level). All for zero prerequisites.

Ftr 5/Wiz 5 is a horrible choice for a build - 5th level gives you no save advantages over 4th for either fighter or wizard, and no BAB increase for the Wizard. Ftr 4/Wiz 6 is a much better choice.

Now, compare that to an EK build - Ftr 1/Wiz 6/Spellsword 1/EK 2. You have the spells of an 8th level wizard (2 levels more than the Fighter/Wizard), the same BAB as a Ftr 4/Wiz 6, better saves, and the ability to wear a mithral chain shirt without penalty, all at the trivial cost of 6 ranks of Knowledge: arcana (which any good spellcaster should have).

If you want a slightly heavier combat build, go Ftr 2/Wiz 4/Spellsword 4. That gives you two extra bonus feats over the above build, better HD, raises your ability to ignore ASF to 15%, and channel spell 3/day, while still casting at the same level as the Ftr 4/Wiz 6.

Either build is better than the Fighter/Wizard combo in all respects except HP, and the difference can easily be made up with the extra spells you gain.

 

[Voadam]

I'm playing an EK right now, rgr 1, wiz5, harper mage 1, EK 8 with fractional BAB and saves. Combat reflexes, 20 ft reach thunderlance, and decent attack bonuses are a lot of fun.

I'm not nearly as powerful as any of the other PCs in our group for raw damage output, but I really enjoy playing him as the demon/witch hunting viking wizard with a big sword.

I'll probably end off the twenty level progression with two more EK, two levels of loremaster, and a second of ranger.