D&D 5E What's the worst spell?


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Yunru

Banned
Banned
Witch Bolt simply sucks at higher levels though, because it sucks as one-shot damage.
Here's a side-by-side, on the left is Witch Bolt's one-shot damage, on the right is (roughly) the expected damage of a single target spell of that level with no save-for-half:

1: 1d12 vs. 2d12 (actually closer to 4d6 but...)
2: 2d12 vs. 3d12
3: 3d12 vs. 5d12
4: 4d12 vs. 6d12
5: 5d12 vs. 8d12
6: 6d12 vs. 10d12
7: 7d12 vs. 11d12
8: 8d12 vs. 12d12
9: 9d12 vs. 15d12
 

Witch bolt actually becomes a MUCH better spell in the higher levels when it does 5-9d12 and can be twinned to a second creature. At which point the continual damage is an afterthought

6d12 Witch Bolt (39 damage, roll to hit) is still worse than Chain Lightning (45 damage, save for half) even before you account for Chain Lightning's extra targets, which unlike Twin Spell don't nearly double the cost of the spell.

Witch Bolt VI is still bad.
 

Gadget

Adventurer
But at levels 1-5 anyway, you're doing significantly more damage than a cantrip. If you just add up the damage and compare witch bolt to magic missile plus cantrips, witch bolt does better if you go for like 5 rounds, or even three rounds if you have advantage on the initial attack (assuming something like a 50% hit chance).

I totally agree though that most of the time, you'll be better off preparing magic missile. That's why witch bolt is not a good spell. But I think typically it is only a bit worse. Whereas if you compare Mord's Sword to Flaming Sphere, it's like 50% less damage.

I think it is quite a bit worse, especially when you are not looking at just raw dpr. Poison Spray does the same damage as WB, albeit with the significant disadvantages of 10' range and a Con save. Fire Bolt does about a point less damage but has a much better range and also, along with other attack cantrips, benefits from advantage. Then there's the big benefit of the cantrips in that they don't use a spell slot. You can spam one each round and still have your concentration on some other effect. You may miss some rounds sure, but you also don't have to commit to doing so each round if the situation changes, and you don't loose the spell if the target moves out of range or goes under cover. Sure, if your target is going to just stand there and take it round after round, WB will really do a number on them, eventually. But usually that only happens if a) they are heavily engaged with the rest of your party/allies such that they cannot approach you to force a concentration check and for some reason cannot back out of range or quickly move through some cover, or b) they are chained up/incapacitated and you are torturing them to death.

While I can see situation a coming up occasionally, I'm not sure that WB is the best use of the spell slot, depending on resources and options available, in the race to zero hp. It can be better to buff one of the fighters and pew, pew, pew with a cantrip, or to MM the target and pew, pew, pew, as more damage earlier in the fight can be more valuable than more damage spread out over many rounds. As for option b), by all means, just make sure you bust out cool lines like "And now you die young Skywalker!"
 

chikiko

First Post
6d12 Witch Bolt (39 damage, roll to hit) is still worse than Chain Lightning (45 damage, save for half) even before you account for Chain Lightning's extra targets, which unlike Twin Spell don't nearly double the cost of the spell.

Witch Bolt VI is still bad.
That's true, although at 10 roll to hit isn't a negative. your proficiency bonus is 6 with a Max stat mod of 5 means you have a +11 to attack. On top of that you can roll a critical and deal 12d12 and against a particularly good save creature an attack roll at +11 might be better choice

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chikiko

First Post
6d12 Witch Bolt (39 damage, roll to hit) is still worse than Chain Lightning (45 damage, save for half) even before you account for Chain Lightning's extra targets, which unlike Twin Spell don't nearly double the cost of the spell.

Witch Bolt VI is still bad.
Not suggesting it's best spell ever just that it can be good in some situations

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chikiko

First Post
I think it is quite a bit worse, especially when you are not looking at just raw dpr. Poison Spray does the same damage as WB, albeit with the significant disadvantages of 10' range and a Con save. Fire Bolt does about a point less damage but has a much better range and also, along with other attack cantrips, benefits from advantage. Then there's the big benefit of the cantrips in that they don't use a spell slot. You can spam one each round and still have your concentration on some other effect. You may miss some rounds sure, but you also don't have to commit to doing so each round if the situation changes, and you don't loose the spell if the target moves out of range or goes under cover. Sure, if your target is going to just stand there and take it round after round, WB will really do a number on them, eventually. But usually that only happens if a) they are heavily engaged with the rest of your party/allies such that they cannot approach you to force a concentration check and for some reason cannot back out of range or quickly move through some cover, or b) they are chained up/incapacitated and you are torturing them to death.

While I can see situation a coming up occasionally, I'm not sure that WB is the best use of the spell slot, depending on resources and options available, in the race to zero hp. It can be better to buff one of the fighters and pew, pew, pew with a cantrip, or to MM the target and pew, pew, pew, as more damage earlier in the fight can be more valuable than more damage spread out over many rounds. As for option b), by all means, just make sure you bust out cool lines like "And now you die young Skywalker!"
If you use quicken spell or have a spell that lets you do damage on as a bonus action you can then make use of the additional auto damage from WB

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chikiko

First Post
I think it is quite a bit worse, especially when you are not looking at just raw dpr. Poison Spray does the same damage as WB, albeit with the significant disadvantages of 10' range and a Con save. Fire Bolt does about a point less damage but has a much better range and also, along with other attack cantrips, benefits from advantage. Then there's the big benefit of the cantrips in that they don't use a spell slot. You can spam one each round and still have your concentration on some other effect. You may miss some rounds sure, but you also don't have to commit to doing so each round if the situation changes, and you don't loose the spell if the target moves out of range or goes under cover. Sure, if your target is going to just stand there and take it round after round, WB will really do a number on them, eventually. But usually that only happens if a) they are heavily engaged with the rest of your party/allies such that they cannot approach you to force a concentration check and for some reason cannot back out of range or quickly move through some cover, or b) they are chained up/incapacitated and you are torturing them to death.

While I can see situation a coming up occasionally, I'm not sure that WB is the best use of the spell slot, depending on resources and options available, in the race to zero hp. It can be better to buff one of the fighters and pew, pew, pew with a cantrip, or to MM the target and pew, pew, pew, as more damage earlier in the fight can be more valuable than more damage spread out over many rounds. As for option b), by all means, just make sure you bust out cool lines like "And now you die young Skywalker!"
At low levels it's completely dependent on the dot aspect to make it worth using. At level one is probably better to use magic missile, chromatic bolt, or catapult if you don't have a way of making sure you can keep them in place or if you don't have a way to do bonus damage

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snickersnax

Explorer
Too bad witch bolt isn't like Jedi Force Lightning. With a stun effect each round. But then it wouldn't be an apprentice level spell....

edit... oops didn't see that someone just started a witchbolt thread
 

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