Whats up with 10/magic damage reduction?

[magnusmalkus]

Damage Reduction

I understand that 10/+1 means that the first 10 points of damage dealt by a weapon are ignored unless that weapon has a +1 or better enhancement bonus.

10/silver means that the first 10 points of damage dealt by a non-silver weapon are ignored even if that weapon has a +5 enhancement bonus on it.

In the SRD, for Damage Reduction it states "The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities."

Considering that, if spells bypass magic resistance, what does 10/magic mean? Does it mean that any weaons magically enchanted will bypass the spell resistance? I don't know of any weapons that are simply 'magical' without having an enhancement bonus, in which case, why doesn't it simply say 10/+1?

 

[Nifft]

You're used to 3.0e, and 3.5e changed DR significantly.

Because in 3.5e there is no longer any such thing as DR 10/+1 (or /+2, or /+3, or ...). Any degree of magic will penetrate DR 10/magic.

Also, in 3.5e, you need an actual Silver weapon to penetrate DR 10/silver. Magic iron is just as reduced as the regular stuff.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Set]

10/+1 was replaced in 3.5 with 10/magic or 10/silver, etc.

10/magic means that magic weapons are required (of any plus).

Other options include 10/silver, 10/bludgeoning, 10/slashing, 10/piercing, 10/cold iron, 10/epic, 10/good, 10/evil, 10/lawful, 10/chaotic, 10/adamantine and 10/jade.

This change from 3.0s 10/+1, 10/+2, etc. system was said to be because the designers didn't like 'golf bag syndrome' in which a Fighter might need a 'sword caddy' following him around with an assortment of weapons needed to overcome this or that DR.

Raise your hand if this argument makes no sense, since a 3.0 Fighter would just need one sword, of as high a plus as he could find, while a 3.5 Fighter might well need a sword caddy to carry the 13 or so types of weapons he would need to overcome the 13 or so types of DR that were added to the system...

"Let's invent an imaginary problem, and literally *create* the problem with the 'fix' for said imaginary problem!"

It's like going to the mechanic for a check-up and he breaks six things in the process of determining that nothing *was* wrong with your car...

 

[Nifft]

This change from 3.0s 10/+1, 10/+2, etc. system was said to be because the designers didn't like 'golf bag syndrome' in which a Fighter might need a 'sword caddy' following him around with an assortment of weapons needed to overcome this or that DR.

Could you provide a cite for that?

I thought the opposite was true -- DR in 3.0e was largely ignored, while in 3.5e your weapon choice actually matters. 3.5e did lower DR quite a bit, so you can triumph in spite of DR, but the fight will be noticeably harder. (As opposed to 3.0e, where it would be damn near impossible to fight a golem whose DR you couldn't exceed, for example.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

DR/magic is garbage in 3.5 and might as well be gotten rid of entirely. For any PC above 1st-level, it's totally irrelevant.

We house ruled needing a +1 weapon for every 5 DR just to give DR/magic some usefulness.

 

[Nifft]

DR/magic is garbage in 3.5 and might as well be gotten rid of entirely. For any PC above 1st-level, it's totally irrelevant.

Not quite. Summoned monsters (particularly elementals) suffer from it. It's also the reason you can't just hire 40 level 1 archers to take down a dragon.

Cheers, -- N

 

[eamon]

DR/magic is garbage in 3.5 and might as well be gotten rid of entirely. For any PC above 1st-level, it's totally irrelevant.

We house ruled needing a +1 weapon for every 5 DR just to give DR/magic some usefulness.

It's still quite relevant for animal companions, summoned creatures, wild-shaped druids and the like. In my not too low power campaign, the 11th level party is still not entirely equipped with magic weapons (admittedly, it's just a weird quirk of how the campaign went that one player never gets around to collecting one). Of course, at 11th level, they could easily afford them, but are just too busy to do so (and due to magic weapon and similar spells, in no great hurry), but at 5th level, they actively chose their equipment and due to limited (to the DMG-recommended level) funds, they avoided expensive magic weapons.

So, DR/magic isn't a problem for parties of 5th level and higher, it remains relevant. And until 4th level or so, a magic weapon is a significant chunk of cash for a PC, so then it definitely remains relevant. It is, however, not very powerful indeed.

 

[billd91]

This change from 3.0s 10/+1, 10/+2, etc. system was said to be because the designers didn't like 'golf bag syndrome' in which a Fighter might need a 'sword caddy' following him around with an assortment of weapons needed to overcome this or that DR.

I think you've got the reason completely wrong.

They believed that the structure of the DR system had made it insufficiently different from the 1e/2e version in which you could not affect the monster unless you have the right plus. So they set the numbers substantially lower so that there was a reasonable chance to damage the creature even without the weapon quality in question.

They also decided that there was no inherent reason for magic to trump other properties like silver, nor was there a sufficient reason to require a substantially more expensive plus on the weapon to affect certain kinds of creatures. So they lumped all magic together and got rid of the weapon property hierarchy.

Does this mean you need a golf bag of weapons? No. You are well advised to have a few weapons of different qualities and/or a number of scrolls/wands capable of extending your own weapons' properties. But a whole bunch of weapons? Not really.

 

[Goolpsy]

10/+1 was replaced in 3.5 with 10/magic or 10/silver, etc.

10/magic means that magic weapons are required (of any plus).

Other options include 10/silver, 10/bludgeoning, 10/slashing, 10/piercing, 10/cold iron, 10/epic, 10/good, 10/evil, 10/lawful, 10/chaotic, 10/adamantine and 10/jade.

Now tell me again that i don't need a 'sword caddy' to be an effective player?

 

[irdeggman]

Now tell me again that i don't need a 'sword caddy' to be an effective player?

Nope just a raging barbarian with power attack and a magic two handed weapon and a spell(or item) enhanced strength should do nicely. Enlarge person will have a nice effect too.

It is not all that hard for a such a character to do sufficient damage to get past that DR with effect.