Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I guess the problem I have with this issue is...
A disparity of 5 points in attack bonus versus AC should be instantly noticeable. INSTANTLY. That's the difference between hitting the typical enemy on a 7 to a 10 as my character does now, and hitting the typical enemy on a 12 to a 15.
One playtest session should indicate that this problem exists. Just one.
So I guess that leaves two possibilities.
1. The armchair math is correct, and nothing else is factoring in to mitigate or negate it. Epic tier is broken, and WOTC never noticed it, even though noticing it would be really, really easy. Apparently the epic tier was never playtested at all.
2. D&D is a complex system, and something else is being factored in. Or, a player who is skilled with his character hits more often at epic tier than the armchair math suggests. We lack testimony from such players because everyone in the conversation either hasn't played epic tier, or, created characters who started at epic level and which they either didn't create well, or didn't play well due to lack of experience with the system.
I know someone will chime in now and tell me that WOTC always screws up this stuff and I shouldn't be surprised, but seriously, I have trouble believing that something so obvious as a five point disparity could be missed. Five points on a 20 point distribution is enormous.
I think it's the powers and paragon path or epic destiny features that change a lot, and which aren't factored in.
Demigod can increase your stat. Epic Trickers grants you rerolls (you'll use them when it counts,not on your vanilla basic attack). There is a Warlord Path that grants you a +2 bonus on your attack if your previous attack mised, and another path that grants adjacent allies a straight +2 bonus to attacks (never leave the side of your Warlord!).
Damage for PCs might go up considerably, and status effect become more common. More powers have Effect or Miss clauses, your action points get you more.
I think the -5 penalty is compensated by the overall effect on all this. Maybe you sometimes hit less often, but you hit a lot harder, and have more ways to boost those attacks that count. I think that's the counter-effect. Arm-Chair math so far only focused on the "obvious" stuff - Level Bonus, Ability Increases, item enhancements, not the subtle effects.
(also not that the original assumption of this thread was that monsters are too weak!)
Last edited: