• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

What's wrong with the single-classed Ranger?

Gaiden

Explorer
Well, um, Barbarians get +1 BAB, +4 skill points and +1d12hp per level. Does that count?

I hate when I make stupid mistakes (I thought that barbarians only got 2 skill points per level. However, I did have an assumption in there that I know I said somewhere along the line - Ranger gets some of the most powerful skills in the game, the barabarian's skills are not quite as potent. Although, the ranger barabarian is a good comparison because you will notice that both do not get benefits at certain levels except these core advances.

p.s. of course the class skills of barbarian differ (and are inferior to) the ranger - I was just gently poking at a single assertion made by Gaiden that the ranger was the only class with that *particular* combination of benefits when the Barbarian goes one better.

:p
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Psyduck

First Post
Plane Sailing said:


I'm sorry to correct you, but improved two weapon fighting is not a class feature of the ranger. Their virtual feats qualify as prereqs, but it has to be selected just like any other feat.

So that idea isn't something that "everyone forgets about", it just isn't an issue at all!

p.s. of course the class skills of barbarian differ (and are inferior to) the ranger - I was just gently poking at a single assertion made by Gaiden that the ranger was the only class with that *particular* combination of benefits when the Barbarian goes one better.

Doh!

That's strange...so the ranger actually has to take that feat? Why does he lose the feat if he fights in something heavier than light armor? Makes no sense to me now...
 

Shard O'Glase

First Post
Gaiden said:


I hate when I make stupid mistakes (I thought that barbarians only got 2 skill points per level. However, I did have an assumption in there that I know I said somewhere along the line - Ranger gets some of the most powerful skills in the game, the barabarian's skills are not quite as potent. Although, the ranger barabarian is a good comparison because you will notice that both do not get benefits at certain levels except these core advances.



:p


I'm not sure it's that unique of a thing though. At some levels the barb and ranger get nothing but hp, BAB, and skils, but on odd levels so does the fighter, at many even levels so does the rogue. Spellcasters, and the monk gain abilities at every level but everyone else gets their abilities spread out a bit more. The ranger has 2 levels where he gets nothing in the beginning (2,3) after that he gets spells and those slowly grow into more. The barbarian gets more rages per day, better uncanny dodge etc. but still the barb, ranger, fighter, and rogue have levels where nothing special or close to nothing special is gained.

Personally I would of built the ranger differently.(but then I would of given all classes mroe skill points, and more class skills) But for the ranger I would like I would for every class is do my best to make them more customizable. The monk is the worst in ths reguard but the ranger isn't far behind. Still the ranger is a very effective class, with good skills, decent skill points, best bab etc.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Hey guys I posted this to the house rules forum, but thought you might also want to take a look here.

Skills: 4+int
Hit Dice: d8

Favored Enemies/Home Field Advantage: At 1st level, the ranger can choose to study a specific group of enemies, and becomes more deadly against them. Against this type of enemy, the ranger recieves a +2 bonus to spot, listen, sense motive, wilderness lore, attack and damage rolls. At 5th level, and every 5 levels after, the ranger can choose an additional favored enemy, and all previous favored enemies bonuses increase by 1.

Home Field Advantage Whenever choosing a favored enemy, the ranger can instead choose a terrain type to which he has become akined. The terrain types are listen in the dmg. When travelling through the terrain, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to spot, listen, search, wilderness lore. In addition he suffers only half the normal movement penalties for that terrain rounded up (if your movement is 1/2, its now 3/4. 3/4 becomes no penalty). Against any creature native to that terrain, the ranger recieves +1 bonus to sense motive and bluff, and to attack and damage rolls. Note: Certain creatures, like some humanoids or undead, have no native terrain type and you cannot use your bonus agaisnt them. At every 5 levels, you can chose a new terrain type or favored enemy, and all previous bonuses again increase by 1.

****My idea above was first that a specific group of enemies is much more narrow than a whole terrain, so I gave them a +2 bonus. Also I added the bonus to attack rolls, because frankly I've always felt rangers should get one, and I would allows this attack roll against even undead, I mean sure you can't hurt them worse but you can study how to get around their defenses. Finally I think the movement bonus might give a little more incentive for rangers to choose jungles and swampes over forests and plains, because I have a feeling that's where the minmaxers would put it.

Track: Rangers get track as a bonus feat at 1st level.

Special Technique: At 2nd level the ranger can learn one special technique.. The possible ones are as follows.

Blade Adept: The ranger has spent great time studying the sword and how to use a pair of them with great accuracy and power. You gain two-weapon fighting and ambidexterity as bonus feats.

Melee Bow Adept: You have learned how to fire a bow effectively at foes admist the chaos of combat. You gain point blank shot and precise shot as bonus feats.

Long Bow Adept: You have trained yourself to fire the maximum distances your bow will allow as well as the eyes to see such distances. You gain a +2 bonus to spot as well as far shot as a bonus feat.

Mounted Adept: You have created a bond between you and the horse that few can match. You get mounted combat and either ride-by attack, mounted archery, or trample as bonus feats.

Exotic Adept: You have spent your time learning the mysteries of the uncommon weapon. You gain exotic weapon proficiency with 3 weapons as bonus feats.

** I thought putting them at 2nd level would lower some of the front-ended ness of the class.

Perception:
Your time spent in the wilderness has made your senses sharp. At 3rd level, and every 3 levels after, you get a bonus to spot and listen as listed below

Stealth: You have learned to move through the wilderness in silence. At 4th level and every 3 levels afterward, you gain a bonus to hide and move silently as shown below.

Special Ability: At 11th, 14th, and 17th levels, the ranger may choose a special ability from the list below.

Stalker: The ranger can cast invisibility as a full round action a number of times per day equal to his caster level.
**This ability may be too powerful, especially at 11th level. I’ll have to think about it.

Immunity: The ranger can become immune to all organic poisons, natural diseases, or one type of energy of his choice. This ability may be taken multiple times.

One with the Wild: The ranger’s bond with the animals of the wild has become even stronger. You now have a druid’s caster level for the purposes of having animal companions.

Enhancement: The ranger has honed his inner abilities even further. You may add +2 to two different saves.

Endurance: You have learned to go beyond your own limits. When below 0 hps, you do not fall unconscious, though you continue to bleed to death normally. You can take a partial action each round, more than that forces you unconscious. You die at –10 hps as normal.

Special Technique: You can choose a special technique in place of an ability.


1st Track, Favored Enemy
2nd Special Technique
3rd Perception +2
4th Stealth +2
5th 2nd Favored Enemy
6th Perception +3
7th Stealth +3
8th
9th Perception +5
10th Stealth +5, 3rd Favored Enemy
11th Special Ability
12th Perception +6
13th Stealth +6
14th Special Ability
15th 4th Favored Enemy, Perception +8
16th Stealth +8
17th Special Ability
18th Perception +9
19th Stealth +9
20th 5th Favored Enemy

**Basically, after all that, the kind and amount of spells the ranger gets (besides animal friendship of course) should be based on balance. He’ll probably need less spells or maybe none at all. Maybe I made him too powerful already. I want your guys opinion. Is he a good alternative, too weak, too strong. Any other suggestions for special abilities, or should I change some of the current ones?
 
Last edited:

Caliber

Explorer
Psyduck said:


Doh!

That's strange...so the ranger actually has to take that feat? Why does he lose the feat if he fights in something heavier than light armor? Makes no sense to me now...

For the same reason you would lose nearly any other feat, which is to say, they would no longer meet the prerequisites of ITWF.

Hope I could help. :D
 

The Souljourner

First Post
As Caliber said, you may take feats that depend on so-called virtual feats, but if you lose access to the prerequisite, you lose access to the feat that depends on it as well.

In heavy armor, rangers lose access to Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting, thus they no longer have access to the prerequisites for Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and can't use it until they regain access to the first two.

Hope that makes sense.

-The Souljourner
 

StGabriel

First Post
Rangers

I love message boards.

Something that is generally accepted throughout the 3e world (i.e. rangers are the most underbalanced core class) actually gets debated.

Why? Because most of us know this, and don't even visit that thread, and then a handful of people who don't, do and post 20 messages each.

*giggle*

Anywho.

---
StGabriel, the Taoist saint.
 

Kai Lord

Hero
kibbitz said:
Sorry, I don't see how all Rangers would have a talent for this, nor how being in touch with surroundings endow Rangers with such abilities.

Would I have included TWF with the Class if I had written it? No. For me allowing that Amb/TWF is just a byproduct of Rangers having heightened senses and fine-tuned gross motor skills is easier to accept in a flavor sense than the idea that they all specifically trained with a weapon in each hand at Ranger school. Since I've never played a Ranger who wielded two weapons its just something I've pretty much dismissed.

kibbitz said:
They're virtual feats that EVERY Ranger has. That is plenty signature, IMO.

And "Summon Familiar" is an ability EVERY Wizard has. That still doesn't make it their signature deal. Its not like people look at a Wizard and say "hey its one of those magic chipmunk guys", even though every single one gets the perk for free. Its the same with Rangers. They aren't "TWF guys", but they could be if they wanted to.

kibbitz said:
Kai Lord, With regards to Favoured Enemy, you're gaining them at the rate of what? +1 every four levels? In time, yes, you'll cover most usual enemies. However, you must admit that it won't be as reliable as WS unless you're facing a lot of those opponents for which it applies to

Of course I recognize that FE's can be much less useful at times than WS. But they can also be MUCH greater. I never said the Ranger was a better all around warrior than a Fighter. But he can hold his own, and if archery is involved even eclipse the Fighter.

He isn't the most powerful nor the weakest class, he's simply balanced. In some situations he'll throw down like no other class, and in others he'll be shown up by others. Just like all the classes. Except maybe the Monk... :cool:
 

kibbitz

First Post
Oh goodie. And I thought I was being ignored...

Kai Lord said:


Would I have included TWF with the Class if I had written it? No. For me allowing that Amb/TWF is just a byproduct of Rangers having heightened senses and fine-tuned gross motor skills is easier to accept in a flavor sense than the idea that they all specifically trained with a weapon in each hand at Ranger school. Since I've never played a Ranger who wielded two weapons its just something I've pretty much dismissed.



And "Summon Familiar" is an ability EVERY Wizard has. That still doesn't make it their signature deal. Its not like people look at a Wizard and say "hey its one of those magic chipmunk guys", even though every single one gets the perk for free. Its the same with Rangers. They aren't "TWF guys", but they could be if they wanted to.

OK, I get your responses about the TWF chain. Guess I'm just more nitpicky then, since I definitely don't envision nor accept TWF being accessible to them naturally. As for the Summon Familiar bit, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as well.


Of course I recognize that FE's can be much less useful at times than WS. But they can also be MUCH greater. I never said the Ranger was a better all around warrior than a Fighter. But he can hold his own, and if archery is involved even eclipse the Fighter.

He isn't the most powerful nor the weakest class, he's simply balanced. In some situations he'll throw down like no other class, and in others he'll be shown up by others. Just like all the classes. Except maybe the Monk... :cool:

Which was why my arguments regarding the Ranger always involved concept over actual balance. I don't see the Ranger as a weaker class, but I do feel that some tweaks are needed.
 

Psyduck

First Post
The Souljourner said:
As Caliber said, you may take feats that depend on so-called virtual feats, but if you lose access to the prerequisite, you lose access to the feat that depends on it as well.

In heavy armor, rangers lose access to Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting, thus they no longer have access to the prerequisites for Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and can't use it until they regain access to the first two.

Hope that makes sense.

-The Souljourner

Oh...:D
 

Remove ads

Top