D&D 5E Whats your dealbreaker for 5E?

[Greg K]

That's about where I'm at. I like 3e/ PF, but I miss the feel of AD&D. It would be great if they kept the core rules as meta setting-free as possible. It should be easy to adopt a no magic shop stance (which thankfully is the default right now), or any other change of that ilk, without contradicting the PHB. The complexity level is there for me right now: I'm running an 8th level PF game right now and the bookkeeping is a bit much. 5e looks to be more my speed.

The question is "what is the feel of AD&D?". I think it is different to each person. What do you miss, specifically, that is, to you, the AD&D "feel"?

 

[Halivar]

$100 per book.

Randomized collectible features.

Psionics in the core PHB.

Classes replaced by "point buy features".

Glitterboys.

All dice replaced by d%.

1st level characters begin with "apotheosis".

Goblins are created by feeding kender after midnight.

In D&DN, $100 gets you the core book plus a booster pack with random extra rules pages. The core book only includes psionics, which start at level 1, but have 20 levels worth of a la carte points to buy your psionic class features. Once special feature of level 1 psionics is the ability to purchase a glitterboy power armor before game begins, with max levels in the Glitterboy Pilot OCC. Also, all d20 rolls are made with percentile instead. D20 remains the standard power-level for other characters. The core rule book includes a special introductory adventure called "Goblins!" where the PC's are given the care of a young kender named Gizmo...

Ye gods, tell me you would not buy this game. Say it with a straight face!

 

[TwoSix]

In D&DN, $100 gets you the core book plus a booster pack with random extra rules pages. The core book only includes psionics, which start at level 1, but have 20 levels worth of a la carte points to buy your psionic class features. Once special feature of level 1 psionics is the ability to purchase a glitterboy power armor before game begins, with max levels in the Glitterboy Pilot OCC. Also, all d20 rolls are made with percentile instead. D20 remains the standard power-level for other characters. The core rule book includes a special introductory adventure called "Goblins!" where the PC's are given the care of a young kender named Gizmo...

Ye gods, tell me you would not buy this game. Say it with a straight face!

Yes, but only if the Glitterboy has no martial dailies, because my verisimilitudes.

 

[Melhaic]

Man, that's a hard one... my first thought would be that it is like porn: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. A few things stand out, however:

-Magic items are rare and dangerous, and not available commercially.
-Very much a medieval feel, not steampunk or magic as technology.
-Swords and sorcery meets Tolkein, not shardmind wyverntouched anti-palaladins.
-Relatively simple PCs and monster statblocks.
-Emphasis on DM fiat, and not encyclopedic rulesets. I love the reliance on ability checks with vaguely defined DCs, for example.

I guess to me it is as much what it isn't, if that makes any sense.

 

[Blackbrrd]

...
That said, I found the lack of options for bad guys to be unsatisfying for me as a DM when I ran a 4e game. It was a breeze to prepare, and the extra time allowed me to beef up the story more and provide more role play opportunities, but when it came down to combat, my bad guy would be stuck doing the same "at will" power for the last 6-8-10 rounds of combat after they blew their daily or encounter powers and action points in rounds 1 and 2. ...

It doesn't sound like you ran with the monster creation rules from 4e, but rather used something like a mix of monster/PC creation. Looking at solo monsters in 4e, they usually have powers with recharge mechanics, recharge at bloodied and reactions. (Assuming you used a solo monsters as the monster lasted up to 10 rounds...)

Another note is that the damage in early 4e was too low, if you had used the current revision of the rules, that fight probably wouldn't last more than 4-6 rounds making the amount of rince-and-repeat much lower.

Just take a look at the dragon at page 112 in Monster Vault: Threats to Nentir Vale and you will see what I mean. It's a skirmisher that never stands still, with a multitude of ways to move around and attack.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

A lot of the old monsters were that poorly designed. The boss of Keep on the Shadowfell had only one encounter power that I recall. (As an elite, he should have had a recharge when first bloodied power instead.) I've seen plenty of old elites with only one attack and NPCs with daily abilities (often elites with only one attack).

Newer monsters don't have these problems.

 

[NewJeffCT]

It doesn't sound like you ran with the monster creation rules from 4e, but rather used something like a mix of monster/PC creation. Looking at solo monsters in 4e, they usually have powers with recharge mechanics, recharge at bloodied and reactions. (Assuming you used a solo monsters as the monster lasted up to 10 rounds...)

Another note is that the damage in early 4e was too low, if you had used the current revision of the rules, that fight probably wouldn't last more than 4-6 rounds making the amount of rince-and-repeat much lower.

Just take a look at the dragon at page 112 in Monster Vault: Threats to Nentir Vale and you will see what I mean. It's a skirmisher that never stands still, with a multitude of ways to move around and attack.

Right the monsters had recharge powers, but most of the time they recharge on a 5 & 6 or just a 6. So, a 1 in 3 chance or 1 in 6 chance of recharge. And, since I had a big group, I would put a solo on the board, as well as an elite or two and a few others.

But, for the final encounter, I used a modified version of Baba Yaga. Level 27 Solo Controller with 984 hit points.
Round 1: Vile Transmutation as Standard Action, Sweep the Field as a Move, Evil Eye as a Minor... Action Point to use Crushing Grasp (recharges Vile Transmutation)
Round 2: Roll to recharge Crushing Grasp (no) Vile Transmutation as Standard, Sweep the Field as a Move, Evil Eye as a Minor, Action Point to use Broomstick (recharges Vile Transmutation)

(remember, at this point, most of the PCs have something that grants them additional or bonus saves, or they can grant allies a bonus save...)
Round 3: roll to recharge Crushing Grasp (no) Vile Transmutation as Standard, Sweep the Field as a Move, Evil Eye as a Minor...
Round 4: roll to recharge Crushing Grasp (yes), which she uses as a standard, Sweep the Field as a Move, Evil Eye as a Minor...

And, then for the next umpteen rounds, I was doing that same process over & over again. Because of her aura, several PCs stayed outside the range for Evil Eye, Vile Transmutation, Crushing Grasp, etc. When the PCs finally bloodied her after like 10 rounds, I declared the battle over since all the PCs were basically at full hit points, just down action points and most of their dailies from taking out the elites and others, and now the archer ranger could turn his attention to her. (the main damage dealers in the party were occupied by the elites, while the lockdown defender kept being subjected to the Vile Transmutation and being turned into a toad.)

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

In D&DN, $100 gets you the core book plus a booster pack with random extra rules pages. The core book only includes psionics, which start at level 1, but have 20 levels worth of a la carte points to buy your psionic class features. Once special feature of level 1 psionics is the ability to purchase a glitterboy power armor before game begins, with max levels in the Glitterboy Pilot OCC. Also, all d20 rolls are made with percentile instead. D20 remains the standard power-level for other characters. The core rule book includes a special introductory adventure called "Goblins!" where the PC's are given the care of a young kender named Gizmo...

Ye gods, tell me you would not buy this game. Say it with a straight face!

I have to admit: that's so gonzo I'd probably buy two!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'm a hoot!

LOL. Barn owl, or screech owl?

 

[Gundark]

There's not a current dealbreaker right now. But what would be a dealbreakers are

1. How easy the game is to run on the fly. If I need a Troll Cleric on the fly and haven't stated one up before hand how long will it take to piece one together?

2. There is a power curve that I enjoy. 3e ened up being a game of Fantasy Supers. 4e did too. 13th Age has a feel of that as well. It's not something I enjoy.

3. So far it doesn't look like this, but if combat bogged down to multiple rounds of a slug fest and it's not even an important fight. OTOH I don't want the BBEG to go down like a punk to a lucky crit either

4. How much do I have to reference crap from books? Self contained stat blocks were good for this