Level Up (A5E) What's Your Unofficial Errata?

[lichmaster]

I actually like the strongholds giving a specific ASI, and especially Dexterity not being an option. Dex is already a god stat (affecting ranged/finesse attack roles, most initiative rolls and AC, and its save is a pretty big one), so the ways to increase it being limited make sense to me.

Well, by this reasoning also magic objects that increase Dex should at least be more expensive, if not rarer.

 

[Ondath]

Well, by this reasoning also magic objects that increase Dex should at least be more expensive, if not rarer.

As it happens, I do think that's one of the big problems with A5E's magic item crafting system: They based the prices off of O5E DMG's horrible ranges, which means you can craft things like a Headband of Intellect with just 500 gold pieces, which is pretty easy to come by for a Level 5+ PC if the Narrator follows the treasure guidelines in Trials & Treasures. Items like that should have costed more (or they should have given less of a bonus if they were to remain Uncommon. I think items like the Headband and the Gloves Giant Strength should've given +2/+4 bonuses like they did in 3E instead of fixing your stat to a number like in AD&D)... Which is why I don't think I'll use the name's magic item buying/crafting rules.

That said, are there any magic objects that increase Dex? I know there are those that increase Int (Headband of Intellect), Strength (Gloves of Giant Strength), even Constitution (Amulet of Health), but I can't recall any items that increase Dex. And the fact that there isn't any might be for the same reason.

 

[lichmaster]

That said, are there any magic objects that increase Dex? I know there are those that increase Int (Headband of Intellect), Strength (Gloves of Giant Strength), even Constitution (Amulet of Health), but I can't recall any items that increase Dex. And the fact that there isn't any might be for the same reason.

You may be right, I assumed the existence of Gloves of Dexterity, like in AD&D 2e, but I'm not finding those
There is a very rare Ioun Stone for 15k and the Manual of Quickness of Action for 20k.

Belt of Giant strength starts at 4k though, so it seems that prices somehow account for the general "usefulness" of an ability score

 

[Ondath]

You may be right, I assumed the existence of Gloves of Dexterity, like in AD&D 2e, but I'm not finding those
There is a very rare Ioun Stone for 15k and the Manual of Quickness of Action for 20k.

Belt of Giant strength starts at 4k though, so it seems that prices somehow account for the general "usefulness" of an ability score

I am willing to bet that the pre-Tasha 5E design accounted for these kinds of things (a similar asymmetrical balancing was around full casters and spell save DC increasing items; Warlocks got them but full casters didn't until Tasha's, and I'm guessing this was because Warlocks have limited opportunities to cast, while full casters breaking bounded accuracy with a +3 to save DCs is a problem). A5E mostly retains this design philosophy, which is one of the reasons I prefer it!

 

[xiphumor]

As it happens, I do think that's one of the big problems with A5E's magic item crafting system: They based the prices off of O5E DMG's horrible ranges, which means you can craft things like a Headband of Intellect with just 500 gold pieces, which is pretty easy to come by for a Level 5+ PC if the Narrator follows the treasure guidelines in Trials & Treasures. Items like that should have costed more (or they should have given less of a bonus if they were to remain Uncommon. I think items like the Headband and the Gloves Giant Strength should've given +2/+4 bonuses like they did in 3E instead of fixing your stat to a number like in AD&D)... Which is why I don't think I'll use the name's magic item buying/crafting rules.

But that's why the magic items all have bizarre and hard-to-find crafting components. It's a way to ensure that the PCs can't make these things unless the Narrator gives them the opportunity to. And even if the Narrator wanted, for example, to have the PCs fight Intellect Devourers without allowing them to craft a headband, all they have to do is declare that in their setting/at their table that this isn't possible.

 

[Ondath]

But that's why the magic items all have bizarre and hard-to-find crafting components. It's a way to ensure that the PCs can't make these things unless the Narrator gives them the opportunity to. And even if the Narrator wanted, for example, to have the PCs fight Intellect Devourers without allowing them to craft a headband, all they have to do is declare that in their setting/at their table that this isn't possible.

Well, yes, but leaving the limiting of rare materials to the DM isn't suitable for every table IMO. My players in my last 5E campaign were really into crafting, and when I tried to limit their access to crafting, it'd make the game unenjoyable for me and for them, and they tried to circumvent the limits in every possible way. For instance, when the players wanted to craft a Headband of Intellect, I said they'd need to go on a side trek to an island full of psionic monks. So the main quest was put on hold since the party wanted this item really badly. Not only that, but when the players found the psychic crystals out of which they could craft items, they didn't try to get one. They wanted to harvest enough materials to make multiple items, and I (unwisely) said they could roll to see how many they could get. The result was that the party got not just one, but two Headbands of Intellect.

Later in the campaign I tried to limit their crafting (because I was following O5E's treasure guidelines, they were swimming in cash pretty easily) and said most of the materials they would need were in far off lands, and they didn't have time to go get them. That just turned them off from the system entirely, as they felt like they were no longer allowed to use a tool I had given them to its full functionality.

Especially in a story driven game, I feel like a crafting subsystem where the players can suspend everything they're doing and go mass-produce some Uncommon items feels immersion breaking to me. For my future games, I might allow the crafting of consumables and common items, but any permanent magic item of uncommon or higher rarity won't be craftable. I might add a Legacy Weapon/Vestige of Divergence system where they can upgrade their magic items, but I just don't think allowing players to freely craft items like 3E (where magic items were included in the game's math) is a good idea.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I actually like the strongholds giving a specific ASI,

i don't think anyone said they didn't?

and especially Dexterity not being an option. Dex is already a god stat (affecting ranged/finesse attack roles, most initiative rolls and AC, and its save is a pretty big one), so the ways to increase it being limited make sense to me.

it doesn't make sense to me. limiting ways to increase dex doesn't make it any less of a god stat, it just means you have one less way of increasing it. and it's not like there aren't ways to get your dexterity above 20 - a manual of quickness of action is no more expensive then any of the other manuals. it feels arbitrary to me, so i've elected to ignore it.

 

[Pedantic]

Well, yes, but leaving the limiting of rare materials to the DM isn't suitable for every table IMO. My players in my last 5E campaign were really into crafting, and when I tried to limit their access to crafting, it'd make the game unenjoyable for me and for them, and they tried to circumvent the limits in every possible way. For instance, when the players wanted to craft a Headband of Intellect, I said they'd need to go on a side trek to an island full of psionic monks. So the main quest was put on hold since the party wanted this item really badly. Not only that, but when the players found the psychic crystals out of which they could craft items, they didn't try to get one. They wanted to harvest enough materials to make multiple items, and I (unwisely) said they could roll to see how many they could get. The result was that the party got not just one, but two Headbands of Intellect.

It's basically impossible to have a crafting and/or equipment purchasing system that isn't a tightly integrated part of a game's core without this problem. I wish base 5e wasn't at war with itself on that front, because attunement as a character resource is so close to solving it. If X points of items are an expected part of the character budget, then we have something to balance around, and gold expenditure becomes a secondary game that can provide optionality, but not reach. That, and a harder attitude toward attribute caps (along with an obvious path to maximizing your primary accuracy stat) would help.

 

[Timespike]

Mine is that anything from WotC books is banned. It's not just animus toward WotC, either. I've found that other stuff based on the OGL is less of a hassle to implement because of the shared 5.0/5.1 SRD baseline.

 

[Ondath]

Mine is that anything from WotC books is banned. It's not just animus toward WotC, either. I've found that other stuff based on the OGL is less of a hassle to implement because of the shared 5.0/5.1 SRD baseline.

I sort of agree for anything post-Tasha's (since 5E's design philosophy changed around that point), but some stuff in O5E I just couldn't do without.