When a great session goes awry.

[RangerWickett]

This is mostly just me thinking out loud in text, to try to decide what to do for the next game.

I had this session all planned, I thought. The party was looking for a gnome who had a secret they needed. He was hiding somewhere in an Orcish city, and so all they had to do was be discreet and not piss anyone off, and they'd be able to find where the gnome was hiding - a huge steelworks factory that had officially shut down after its human owner died mysteriously (the gnome is a little homocidal).

The wrench that was going to be thrown into the party's path was that an opposing group was looking for the same gnome. The party had crossed swords with this group before, but not these particular agents. The idea was to introduce a group of villains as foes who would show up later, and to have one of those villains confront the party at the climax of the adventure. The way I envisioned it most likely going, the party would see these mysterious foreigners at the city's docks, but would focus on the task at hand - namely finding the gnome. Then, at the steel mill, while the party was trying to catch the fleeing gnome, one of the villains would make an impressive appearance, and we'd have a nice fight in the steelworks.

Instead, the party got about halfway to figuring out where the gnome was, then decided to ask this group of villains for information. They didn't know the villains were bad guys at the time, but the villains knew the PCs were their enemies, so of course they weren't helpful. The party finally figured out that these strange warriors were also looking for the gnome, so instead of following the trail to the gnome, which they had almost completely figured out, they decided to stake out the villain's ship and wait to follow them when they went to get the gnome.

Well, the stake out failed, because the villains were kinda hoping to follow the PCs. But one of the PCs on stake out got impatient, and because they still didn't know the warriors were actual enemies, he went to talk to them, to offer to work together. It was after midnight at this time, and the woman warrior he talked to unhappily agreed to let the PC on board to discuss things in private. But the PC got a hunch that he was just being led toward capture and death, so he stopped, tried to weasel some information out of the woman, and then, when he knew the jig was up, he jumped overboard and swam back to the party's own ship.

At the ship, though, the rest of the party decided to try to negotiate again. They thought it was sort of a gentleman's agreement between fellow adventurers not to ambush each other while sleeping. So they didn't take the threat seriously, and went to bed.

Here's where I'm a bit unhappy. I'm co-DMing the game with my friend Michael - he does a lot of side NPCs and sidequests while I handle main villains and combats. I was about to do something like, the villains head out immediately to find the gnome, and so the party is just screwed over that they've failed. But Michael suggests that, well, the villains are pretty confident in their skill, and they think they have the element of surprise, so the three warriors should attack the party. Logically, he says, the villains should try to kill the party.

Which works fine, except that the villains were, for reasons that will play into the plot later on, supposed to be fairly high level. The party's a group of five 6th level characters - the three villains were 10th, 12th, and 15th. They were gonna roll the party.

One of our rules of DMing is "The villains can only capture the PCs a maximum of twice per campaign." Another is "The villains can only beat the party then leave them alive once per campaign." We used up one capture and one beatdown tonight. The villains need to interrogate the party because the party has something incredibly vital to them, so I had a good reason to take the party captive.

The fight was fun, but by the end of it three PCs were unconscious, two of which were captured. One PC had had his hand severed by a sword of sharpness, and he and the last PC had barely managed to escape by swimming away. One of the three villain warriors was killed. The swift and violent response by the local orcish police force ensured that the villains couldn't pursue the party forever, but now we have a split party, and my really really nifty battle I'd planned for the climax will never happen.

I guess the only thing that upsets me is that the party's been divided, and one of the PCs who got away is the guy who really doesn't want to be with the rest of the group. It will be hard to plan next session.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Cymex666]

It never ceases to amaze me how adventuring groups will always manage to do the one thing, or go off on a tangent that the DM never accounted for. I guess it's all part of the DM's job.

 

[Taneel BrightBlade]

yah

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I'll never understand why players create characters that aren't designed to work with other PCs. It just makes no sense to me. I had a player once whose PC submission I sent back three times in a row with instructions to "find a reason to adventure with the rest of the group." At the fourth Lone Wolf submission, I uninvited him to the game.

I know the loner PC is only a small part of your frustration, but the syndrome resonates with me. Call it one of my many -- many -- pet peeves.

 

[shilsen]

I'll never understand why players create characters that aren't designed to work with other PCs. It just makes no sense to me. I had a player once whose PC submission I sent back three times in a row with instructions to "find a reason to adventure with the rest of the group." At the fourth Lone Wolf submission, I uninvited him to the game.

I know the loner PC is only a small part of your frustration, but the syndrome resonates with me. Call it one of my many -- many -- pet peeves.

What he said. In my campaign(s), I'm much more likely to allow in an evil character in a good party as long as there's some motivation for the PCs to work together than I am to allow in a "lone wolf" PC.

Back to RW's post, it seems to me that you were making a lot of assumptions about what the PCs would/should do. I'm sure there are a dozen more things the PCs could have done which would have derailed your plans for the session. Anyway, that's water under the bridge now, so for the next session I'd suggest having players run a few NPCs. Either

(a) focus on the captured PCs (esp. if they have any realistic chance to escape) and let the escaped PCs' players run NPCs who might be other captives, allies or even interrogators, or
(b) focus on the escaped PCs and have the captured PCs' players run the NPCs who will help to rescue the captured ones.

You could even slide back and forth between the two groups over the course of the session.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Here's where I'm a bit unhappy. I'm co-DMing the game with my friend Michael - he does a lot of side NPCs and sidequests while I handle main villains and combats. I was about to do something like, the villains head out immediately to find the gnome, and so the party is just screwed over that they've failed. But Michael suggests that, well, the villains are pretty confident in their skill, and they think they have the element of surprise, so the three warriors should attack the party. Logically, he says, the villains should try to kill the party.

Which works fine, except that the villains were, for reasons that will play into the plot later on, supposed to be fairly high level. The party's a group of five 6th level characters - the three villains were 10th, 12th, and 15th. They were gonna roll the party.

Knowing this, proceeding to open up the can of whoop ass on the PCs led to inevitable results. You saw it coming -- in this case it's not direct PC actions that led to this mess but a DMing decision. Yeah, they were a little stupid, but did they have any clue that these people they were messing with were significantly more powerful than them?

I think players are entitled to a few in-game hints before they get in over their heads. There's nothing wrong with insurmountable challenges -- a party's got to be ready to run away -- but they need to be able to assess the insurmountable challenges from the tough-but-overcomable ones.

I'm not a personal fan of having long-running NPC baddies who are of significantly higher level than the PCs. If the bad guy needs to be higher level later on, I just add a few levels when appropriate. If there's a remote chance that the PCs are going to fight someone, I try to make sure that (1) there's a remote chance that they can win, or (2) they've got enough clues that they'll get steamrolled that they're more likely to run than stand and fight.

Best laid plans ...

 

[the Jester]

Though it's a shame they threw off your plan, it sounds like a fun and dramatic game session- congrats!

I'd say the pcs made a terrible tactical decision- or rather a series of them, culminating in the big one ("let's go to sleep, they won't do anything to us"), and suffered the consequences. Doing anything differently would have been wussing out, imho. Also imho a game where stuff like this happens is much more exciting than one where nobody ever has any misfortune.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Sounded good until you let loose the dogs of war on 'em. I've been in similar situations where I knew the NPCs "should" attack, but I didn't simply b/c throwing the adventure off the rails only hurts everyone's enjoyment of the game.

 

[Waylander the Slayer]

I am not sure why you have rules of what can and cannot happen in a campaign - it kills the versimilitude? of the campaign. I have found that it is easier to DM when the campaign reacts to the PC actions.

If it had made sense for the NPC's to capture/or kill the PC's they should do so. For example, what would the NPCs do with the captured PC's? What is the Gnome going to do? Who can the escaped PC's turn to for help or assistance? What organizations have been alerted to the PC's / NPCs because of their actions? For example, what happened with the Orcish police? Are they actively investigating? have they confiscated the ships? where are the PC's/NPC's hiding out?

As a GM, the best thing that can always be done is to consider how the "world" reacts to the action of the PCs.(i.e i have had a large city invaded by fiends, a high level NPC taken out(good tactics from the PCs), an ancient "race" released upon the world etc. because of the PC actions. The players enjoy and think a lot more when they know what they do is going to effect the world.

 

[Nellisir]

I guess the only thing that upsets me is that the party's been divided, and one of the PCs who got away is the guy who really doesn't want to be with the rest of the group. It will be hard to plan next session.

Thanks for listening.

No problem. If I were you, I'd be considering a few things: villains need to sleep too (giving PCs a chance to escape or rescue); the villains maybe ought to have a few henchmen around; the gnome issue seems to be delayed but not terminated; the PC that "really doesn't want to be with the rest of the group" ought to either a) leave, b) find a reason to stay with the group, or c) have his "comfort zone" rearranged, driving him back to the group (I'll bet a few nights alone on the streets of an orcish city, surrounded by thugs, beggers, and gangs, and wanted by the officials, is a real eye-opener about the value of friends and allies).

Don't look at the climactic fight as ruined. You've got a better opportunity now. Of the 3 NPCs, 1 is dead. It sounds like they're part of a larger group, so having 1 of the remaining two get reassigned or have to report in is viable. That leaves one to lurk around and leap out at the final moment, into a great big fight. The injury and humiliation they've already suffered at his/er hands ought to really bug the PCs, and if they're concerned about getting it handed to them again, play up the many vs one angle.

The only advice I'd offer is as a DM. I assume the PCs will always end up fighting, and I always try to keep the immediate villains a reasonable but not overwhelming threat -- otherwise the PCs get into a fight with the uber-villains, and I have either a TPK/capture or a forced deus ex machina. The important higher-level villains might make brief cameos -- showing up to gloat if the PCs are captured, or threatening them just outside the king's throne room (where the PCs are unarmed and surrounded by royal guardsmen), but if the villain(s) can make total rubble out of the PCs, then they don't show up for prolonged interaction.

Good luck!
Nell.