Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
When a man plays a woman
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6939533" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Seriously? I thought we were arguing whether or not in general non-human races are standins for specific 'non-white' racial cultural groups. Whether or not D&D did or did not start out with cultural or sexual biases is irrelevant to answering that question. It could be that it did have cultural or sexual biases, but those biases weren't expressed by (for example) making Gnolls analogy for Laotian peoples or making Elves a stand in for Berbers or whatever you think. Whatever we want to make of specific mechanical differences between genders in 1e AD&D, it has no bearing on whether kobolds, gnomes, and norkers are actually stand ins for real world ethnic groups. It would seem that your mode of argumentation is to eschew logic, and bring up every single controversial political position you can drag into the thread whether it has a bearing on the subject at hand or not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, and if I wanted to insult my eyes, I could go out and find lots of Neo-Nazi writings on various topics as well. The existence of someone out there with a theory in no way validates that theory. There are tons of people who are wrong about things. Citing "expertise" or "authority" in vague ways isn't an argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Once again, I've no intention of arguing this either. Take it up here: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGgj9S8XO7k" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGgj9S8XO7k</a> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There probably isn't. My idea of evidence supporting your argument is you show examples of how hobgoblins were explicitly meant to have a Slavic culture or to be a stand in for Aztecs or something. Then you show that there is a one for one and onto relationship between the culture and cultural tropes associated with hobgoblins and the intended real world culture they represent. And if you can do that, I might find it convincing. What I don't find convincing is this unrelated word salad of political speech.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel much the same way about people that claim cultural appropriation exists, and your axiomatic assertions aren't completely convincing. But, if you are curious I was involved in a much longer (and largely) respectful discussion of whether it exists or not about a year ago on EnWorld. Go read that thread if you like. I have no intention of repeating myself at that length. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Including the belief that cultural appropriation exists?</p><p></p><p>However, most of all it is irrelevant. I wasn't challenging the whole of your carefully constructed political world view, and frankly I don't find you outlining your politics in a conventional manner particularly convincing. I was challenging a very specific statement.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6939533, member: 4937"] Seriously? I thought we were arguing whether or not in general non-human races are standins for specific 'non-white' racial cultural groups. Whether or not D&D did or did not start out with cultural or sexual biases is irrelevant to answering that question. It could be that it did have cultural or sexual biases, but those biases weren't expressed by (for example) making Gnolls analogy for Laotian peoples or making Elves a stand in for Berbers or whatever you think. Whatever we want to make of specific mechanical differences between genders in 1e AD&D, it has no bearing on whether kobolds, gnomes, and norkers are actually stand ins for real world ethnic groups. It would seem that your mode of argumentation is to eschew logic, and bring up every single controversial political position you can drag into the thread whether it has a bearing on the subject at hand or not. Yes, and if I wanted to insult my eyes, I could go out and find lots of Neo-Nazi writings on various topics as well. The existence of someone out there with a theory in no way validates that theory. There are tons of people who are wrong about things. Citing "expertise" or "authority" in vague ways isn't an argument. Once again, I've no intention of arguing this either. Take it up here: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGgj9S8XO7k[/url] There probably isn't. My idea of evidence supporting your argument is you show examples of how hobgoblins were explicitly meant to have a Slavic culture or to be a stand in for Aztecs or something. Then you show that there is a one for one and onto relationship between the culture and cultural tropes associated with hobgoblins and the intended real world culture they represent. And if you can do that, I might find it convincing. What I don't find convincing is this unrelated word salad of political speech. I feel much the same way about people that claim cultural appropriation exists, and your axiomatic assertions aren't completely convincing. But, if you are curious I was involved in a much longer (and largely) respectful discussion of whether it exists or not about a year ago on EnWorld. Go read that thread if you like. I have no intention of repeating myself at that length. Including the belief that cultural appropriation exists? However, most of all it is irrelevant. I wasn't challenging the whole of your carefully constructed political world view, and frankly I don't find you outlining your politics in a conventional manner particularly convincing. I was challenging a very specific statement. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
When a man plays a woman
Top