When a Spellcaster Dies and Shared Spells

[Rystil Arden]

Sure. But while you were dead, was it 'you' benefiting from them, or just the object you used to inhabit?

While you were Magic Jarred, the Bull's Strength spell was still operating... but was it operating on 'you', or just on the body it was cast on? When you return, you 'keep the spell effect', but that doesn't mean you had it the whole time. The spell never stopped operating, but was it always 'you' it was operating on?

Similarly, when you die, the spell keeps operating on your corpse... does that mean it's operating on 'you'? And while your body is dead, are 'you' within 5 feet of the familiar standing next to it?



Yup. Is a dead creature a creature? (Not necessarily a redundant question. Compare: Is a natural armor bonus an armor bonus? Is an incorporeal touch attack a touch attack? Is a monstrous humanoid a humanoid?) After all, a corpse is an object, and an object is 'not a creature'. So if 'you' are a creature, can you be a dead creature if a dead creature is not a creature?

-Hyp.

Let's pretend I choose to agree (yep, a feeble proof by contradiction coming soon!) If I'm not me when I am killed, then you are not you when you are killed, right? And similarly, if I'm a body and an object, I am not a human when I am killed, correct? No creature would be a creature of that type when killed. So a Balor is not a Balor when it is killed. This would mean that Death Throes (Ex) does nothing, since

When killed a balor explodes in a blinding flash of light

but when it is killed, it is not a balor, so the ability fizzles.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If I'm not me when I am killed, then you are not you when you are killed, right?

You might not be you after you are killed.

When you are killed, the state is indeterminate

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You might not be you after you are killed.

When you are killed, the state is indeterminate

-Hyp.

The state is only indeterminate if you are not you after you are killed. It's perfectly determinate if you assume otherwise

But fine, we'll choose a power that works after being killed. The ghost's Rejuvenation ability checks after 2d4 days. After that time frame "a ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16". But isn't it not a ghost now? Is it different for undead?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The state is only indeterminate if you are not you after you are killed. It's perfectly determinate if you assume otherwise

I'm talking about when you are killed - that instant in time when the transition from alive to dead occurs. After that instant, you're dead. Before that instant, you're alive. What are you at the moment of transition?

(Or, if you prefer, is 12 noon 12am, or 12pm? Is it actually neither? Both?)

But fine, we'll choose a power that works after being killed. The ghost's Rejuvenation ability checks after 2d4 days. After that time frame "a ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16". But isn't it not a ghost now? Is it different for undead?

I get the impression that the ability suggests a ghost reduced to 0 hit points is not in fact destroyed... hence the quotes around the word. A 'destroyed' ghost is, in fact, not destroyed - rather, it is a ghost-that-would-otherwise-be-destroyed.

But I think you're arguing against a different point to the one I'm making. I'm not saying that upon death, the creature ceases to exist; rather, I'm questioning whether the creature, after death, remains coincident with the object that was once its body.

If we posit that a dead adventurer goes to, say, Celestia - there to either enjoy eternal paradise or to await resurrection - is he still present on the Material Plane where his body is lying? Or does being on another plane exceed the five foot distance from his familiar?

What is 'the caster'? Is it the dead body, or is it the soul?

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

What is 'the caster'? Is it the dead body, or is it the soul?

That depends on your beliefs. Try this fun little game here and see what you get

 

[Hypersmurf]

That depends on your beliefs.

And that's why I said "There's a metaphysical question in there..." in my first reply

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

And that's why I said "There's a metaphysical question in there..." in my first reply

-Hyp.

So since it is at best an open question, there is nothing to prove that the side that keeps the spell active is determinately wrong. That means I'll pick the answer that doesn't screw over the player who already has died.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

That means I'll pick the answer that doesn't screw over the player who already has died.

It was an NPC. Actually, it was one of the BBEGs.