Fifth Element
Legend
Seeing what they want to see, for example by only reading certain little bits of a class description instead of paying attention to how the class works in-game, for instance?
Yur loozin crediblitiez heer.
When did the Fighter become "defender"?
Mattachine
Adventurer
Really? This?
renau1g
First Post
Well, I was going to respond, but you obviously win with this. I can't refute the logic of this post.
Have a
I just need to say that just because "you" have never seen something that doesn't mean it's nonexistent.
renau1g
First Post
That's true, I did state I've never seen it (and from a lot of other posters here who play 4e haven't seen it). I've seen a fairly large sample on enworld from international gamers and a decent sample size at the local FLGS that doesn't agree with the person who is ignorant of 4e comments. So my comment may not be representative of every single gamer who's ever picked up the dice to play, but based on my experience here, in person, on a few other sites, it does seem to be more representative of the majority.
Last edited:
How about we keep the name calling out of the posts? Calling people "troll's" is a form of harassment.
I think there is one thing that needs to be set straight. I could probably bet you anything that the total players from all the forums don't make up even half of the gamer population. Most of the people who frequent the boards are the same few with different screen names.
I have gamed a lot around the world and I can tell you from personal experience that I have seen the above. I had two people in one of my campaigns that were brother and sister, in game, and the brother was a fighter who was his wizard sister's bodyguard. He would stand in front of her and guard her while she would cast spells.
Fifth Element
Legend
Was that a deliberate character choice (ie, roleplaying), or was it something the fighter-player felt forced into because of the design of the fighter class?
renau1g
First Post
Right, I was going to say along these lines. I could make a rogue that only hides in the shadows and never fights because they're scared of getting hurt. I shouldn't be blaming the system for my choice.
And what you describe isn't something that 4e is responsible for, I'm guessing that player would play the same way in 1-3e also.
Edit: I'm well aware that the posters here aren't the entire gaming population, I'm sure that 50% is even way too high, probably more like 10%. The sample size you note is 1 and the sample size I noted is much larger.
nogray
Adventurer
Bad Fighters
The 4e (PHB) fighter that does this is being actively bad. He only marks when he attacks, so if he hasn't attacked the enemies, he hasn't begun to do his job. He is not only giving up his damage from that first onslaught, but also the potential damage from his combat challenge or opportunity attack. In fact, that's probably why the 4e folk (myself included) have never seen this behavior.
In fact, there is no 4e defender that would operate that way. Here is a run-down.
[sblock="4e mark mechanics"]
That's precisely what the fighters that I've played with do. That way, they are doing something on their turn and actually marking something so that their defender mechanic is active for the coming enemy turns. In fact, all the defenders that I've played with are similarly active.
The 4e (PHB) fighter that does this is being actively bad. He only marks when he attacks, so if he hasn't attacked the enemies, he hasn't begun to do his job. He is not only giving up his damage from that first onslaught, but also the potential damage from his combat challenge or opportunity attack. In fact, that's probably why the 4e folk (myself included) have never seen this behavior.
In fact, there is no 4e defender that would operate that way. Here is a run-down.
[sblock="4e mark mechanics"]
- Fighter (PHB / Weaponmaster): marks when attacking. Might mark with a thrown weapon, I suppose, but is attacking each round or is not doing the (defender) job. Since mark punishment is a melee basic attack, there is a lot of system-based encouragement for the fighter to be in melee with their target.
- Paladin (PHB): marks at a moderate range with an active power use, but that mark goes away if, by the end of their turn, they have not attacked or ended adjacent to the target. (There are also numerous powers that apply marks to enemies in close proximity, but those are active powers, not the paladin's player saying "I just stand there.")
- Swordmage: marks at a short range with an active power use; this is the defender most likely to mark one enemy and then try to get away from it to engage another enemy, thus potentially keeping two enemies occupied.
- Warden: marks in essentially melee range with and active power use, meaning they tend to run up to mark a group or the biggest baddie. Mark punishment is melee or short range, so once again, the warden will stay close to the marked foe.
- Battlemind: marks at short range with an active power use. It's possible that the battlemind might mark one (or more) foe(s) and go after another, but less likely. This is because (unlike the swordmage) the battlemind's mark punishment depends on being in melee range.
- Essentials Defenders (Fighter-Knight, Barbarian-Berserker, Paladin-Cavalier): have a defender aura; that means they must generally be adjacent to their enemy to do their job. (If the terrain is just right, I could see this sort of defender moving to some ideal position and not attacking, doing the defender thing by enforcing/controlling a bottleneck. Still, that would be a corner-case scenario.
That's precisely what the fighters that I've played with do. That way, they are doing something on their turn and actually marking something so that their defender mechanic is active for the coming enemy turns. In fact, all the defenders that I've played with are similarly active.
Similar Threads
