When do monsters recover action points?

[fba827]

Basically, (in my opinion) if you are recharging encounters powers for the monster, you should also recharge action points.

A monster is rated based on its potential threat level to the PCs level. If you take away its action points for an encounter with it, it is not the same level of threat it was rated to be.

Or, for a less opinion based response and more rules-oriented response, I'd stick with what ExploderWizard said ...

Use a simple rule for monsters. If a monster encounters the PC's and lives to talk about it, then it counts as a milestone.

PCs are basically a bunch of uber creatures. The monsters survived to tell the tale (even if that survival is just for 5 minutes while the PCs rested on the other side of the locked door) -- so it's a milestone for that creature.

 

[CapnZapp]

Barring specific rules to the contrary, I would say that the same rules that apply to characters would apply to the opposition.

I think this 3E legacy thinking is a misguided approach: Monsters generally don't play by the same rules as player characters, and so it would seem more natural in 4E to say

"Barring specific rules to the contrary, I would say that the same rules that apply to characters don't apply to the opposition."

 

[KarinsDad]

"Barring specific rules to the contrary, I would say that the same rules that apply to characters don't apply to the opposition."

This philosophy makes the world seem contrived.

As an example, both PCs and monsters can take damage from fire. But a fresh PC can be healed via magic 10 times whereas a fresh monster can only be healed via magic once.

The rules should apply the same to monsters and PCs except for specific rules to the contrary for a specific purpose such as minions. Differences should be the exception, not the rule.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It really isn't defined by the rules. KD has a point that in the absence of any specific exception the normal rules apply to monsters just like they do to PCs. However its also a good point that monster resource management is quite different from that of PCs and really isn't applicable. The idea of giving the monster a milestone does kind of resolve the issue though.

Personally my view is that normal monsters simply don't have APs at all, so that aspect of things is moot where they're concerned and if you consider a monster surviving an encounter to be a milestone then your average monster still won't have an AP simply because there is no such thing for them. Elite and Solo monsters would gain one AP, but I would still say they have a cap of 1 or 2 for solos.

Hit points are the easy part, you can simply go by the same rules as PCs. Every heroic tier monster has one HS. If they get a short rest, they can use it to heal themselves. Paragon and epic tier monsters can use their 2 (or 3) HS if they need to do so.

Presumably if a monster had magic items with daily use powers, then it would gain another daily item use for their milestone. Largely irrelevant though since its highly doubtful a monster is going to have 2 or more such items.

Another thing to remember is that monster stat blocks are really only intended to tell you what the monster can do in a combat situation. For most ordinary monsters they probably can't do much else that's interesting, but higher level and leader type monsters may easily have resources available to them that aren't spelled out in the stat block. For example they might know certain rituals, alchemy, etc. They may even have spell books which might allow them to do a power swap if they get an extended rest. This kind of thing is totally within the realm of the DM and it can make these types of opponents a lot more interesting.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Hit points are the easy part, you can simply go by the same rules as PCs. Every heroic tier monster has one HS. If they get a short rest, they can use it to heal themselves. Paragon and epic tier monsters can use their 2 (or 3) HS if they need to do so.

Are you talking about the actual number of surges or activations for those surges (such as second wind)? IMHO a fresh monster that gets a short rest can spend surges at will to heal up a whole lot.

 

[Dr_Sage]

There are no rules as far as I know. It's a pretty edge case situation. I'd treat it like NPC HPs.

i.e. NPCs regain AP when and if the plot warrants it.

I agreed.

Plot/story based DM decision.

If you want a better "balance point of view" opinion, this incentivates the group to not take rests and just chase the creature, becuse if the PCs recover... so may the creature.

 

[CapnZapp]

This philosophy makes the world seem contrived.

As an example, both PCs and monsters can take damage from fire. But a fresh PC can be healed via magic 10 times whereas a fresh monster can only be healed via magic once.

The rules should apply the same to monsters and PCs except for specific rules to the contrary for a specific purpose such as minions. Differences should be the exception, not the rule.

Well, the player characters ARE the exceptions.

A more fruitful comparison would be "unless specified otherwise, monsters and NPCs go by the same rules."

As for the PCs, all rules are off. All monster/NPC rules; at least.

That's just the way 4E works. You don't have to like it.

 

[Eldorian]

DM fiat. Just be sure to reward your PCs whenever you make an encounter harder because of your fiat. Unless your PCs don't care so much about rewards and are just there to play the game. Then do whatever is most fun for you and the players.

 

[Engilbrand]

In this case, the DM fiat would be removing the action point or lowering hit points. The XP should be less, because the monster isn't "up to snuff".

 

[-Avalon-]

What I would like to see them make is a Monster's Handbook/Guide...

Make it so that monsters are done same way characters are almost, you have the different "classes" (IE lurker, solider, brute, etc), you have the higher levels, you have elites and solo's... But I think it would be better if we saw honestly what powers can be put onto one monster without overpowering it, or underpowering it... When do they get their AP's back, how many HP do they heal out of a fight, etc etc... More templates also...

They could make a really well fleshed out monster creation and handling guide that would be awesome, and then DM's could make a ton of monsters that all fit within the realm of RAW materials... as it is, MM1 and MM2 are not based on the same methods, and DM Guide method of creating monsters doesn't seem to fit either MM1 or MM2 methods... so how are these monsters created?? What are the rules for monsters, we know they don't go by same rules that players do... so where are the rules for them then?

(and not just a sketchy set of rules, a good clear-cut way of handling everything)