D&D General When do you overrule RAW?

[Micah Sweet]

I maintain: IF you are going to overrule RAW in a situation like this (and I probably wouldn't) THEN give your monster the ability to "Stomp Over" obstacles (including PCs) in its path, rather than directly nerfing your PC's abilities. It's just better form. It gets you to the same (perhaps, in your mind, verisimilitudinous) place, but lets your player know that it's a one-off based on THIS monster's awesomeness, and not "Your abilities suck. You suck. I'm the DM. Nyah-nyah!"

Yeah, I'm sure that's how Mercer meant it, and how his group took it too. You can do better than that.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Depends on what or how the scene was described. Besides if there is a disconnect on the implications of the description your still facing a disconnect between the player and DM. IF there's a disconnect, then you're going to have misunderstandings on what's actually possible in any given situation.

But that disconnect wouldn't become apparent until after Marisha has her PC attempt that action, what with time going just the one way and all.

Now I certainly feel that Mercer could have backpeddled and let her try something else in the moment, but I have no issue with his motivation.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It's very likely that no one had tried to use sentinel on a creature that large before.

Fighting a giant monster is hardly an unforeseeable scenario in D&D.

 

[Mort]

I don't think that is part of the decision. The setting exists independently of the PCs in my view.

If the DM consistently allows 1 set of characters to do their shtick but often puts another set of characters through additional hoops (when they try to do theirs), even if they're sticking with RAW, players will quickly realize that playing the first set is greatly to their advantage.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Yeah, I'm sure that's how Mercer meant it, and how his group took it too. You can do better than that.

Relax. I wasn't implying that he meant it that way. However, it seems probable that Marisha felt like some of that was occurring. My point is - it is easy to get to the same place with less chance of ruffling feathers AND you get to make everything BIGGER, rather than making anyone small.

Tell you what, I'll go back and tone down the hyperbole. I often forget that hyperbole doesn't work well online. We're BOTH supposed to know that it's an exaggeration that isn't meant to be taken literally.

 

[Mort]

But that disconnect wouldn't become apparent until after Marisha has her PC attempt that action, what with time going just the one way and all.

Seeing as sentinel was a consistent go-to against any given opponent (especially ones that moved a lot), I don't see how this was some kind of surprise.

Now I certainly feel that Mercer could have backpeddled and let her try something else in the moment, but I have no issue with his motivation.

Yes, he certainly shouldn't just have her autofail, that was overly punitive. But I also disagree about overruling RAW here in the first place (the monster was big but not BIG).

 

[Oofta]

Sure, but I think here is a bit different.

Here It's not saying to the player "What you're trying to do isn't RAW or even close..."

it's "I know what your trying to do IS RAW but I'm going to disallow it because..."

The latter is likely to happen MUCH less often. If it's happening a lot there is likely some kind of major disconnect between the player and DM - and that needs to be ironed out.

There are occasionally be things I know as a DM the players don't. But there are others when it's just a judgment call.

I don't know the CR details but I probably wouldn't allow sentinel to work on a tarrasque as an example. It's a scaled up 50 foot tall t-rex. It could see it working on even a huge giant because I could see an attack to the creature's Achilles tendon or the back of the knee causing it to stumble.

But yes, there are limits to what I would allow no matter what feature is in play. It's going to be exceedingly rare though, on the verge of being hypothetical.

 

[Clint_L]

I definitely think he should have given her a head's up that the immobilizing effect of Sentinel was unlikely to work, particularly when she decided to spend her re-roll (it still did damage off the reaction attack). However, given the situation (a gargantuan sort of spectral/amorphous entity that was constantly changing shape), I think the ruling makes sense.

Did Rey actually take heat for it online? That's crappy; she has received a lot of unfair and misogynist treatment in the past and I think it sucks. She's great!

 

[Scott Christian]

I think, ideally (IMO of course), the DMs line of thought and inquiry should be "how can I make your action fit into what I think is going on in the fiction..." And the DM should work with the player to get the action to fit (in a way they both conceptualize working) .

To often, I see DMs act as goalies, who think their job is to intercept/disallow any act that doesn't fit their idea of the fiction/what's going on. And I think this is backwards.

I like what your saying, but I think there needs to be a bit more neutrality. A DM is a goalie. But they are also a coach and player and fan.

 

[Mort]

I definitely think he should have given her a head's up that the immobilizing effect of Sentinel was unlikely to work, particularly when she decided to spend her re-roll (it still did damage off the reaction attack). However, given the situation (a gargantuan sort of spectral/amorphous entity that was constantly changing shape), I think the ruling makes sense.

Did Rey actually take heat for it online? That's crappy; she has received a lot of unfair and misogynist treatment in the past and I think it sucks. She's great!

I think the heat was for a different incident. When She had her character dive off a massive cliff just for kicks, figuring she couldn't possibly take enough damage for it to be lethal (she had 127 HP at the time). But Mercer didn't cap the falling damage and had her take 363 damage. She was as he described it reduced to a "scatter of red mess..."