When does your turn officially end

[Chaotic Archon]

The following three scenarios came up and I was unable to find anything really clear about how the following situations should work according to the rules (we had player discussion both supporting and discounting the actions):

To set the first two up, let's use the following initiative order:
Party Member 1
ME
Party Member 2
Party Member 3
Monsters
Party Member 4

1. I use power X that grants a penalty or bonus until the end of my next turn (lance of faith for example). If I choose to delay my action until after Party Member 3 goes, then Party Member 2 gets to take advantage of that penalty/bonus a 2nd time and then I get to act before the monsters again.

2. Assume the exact same scenario as 1, but instead of delaying, I ready an action to attack with the trigger "after party member 2 attacks this creature".

Is it within the rules to grant this bonus twice? Until I cross the initiative threshold of the monsters, I could conceivably double my granted penalties/bonuses for most of my abilities.


The phb says that your turn is over when you've taken all your actions. Does readying an action count as taking all your actions? If it does NOT count, then until my action triggers (if at all), the previous 2 examples would be in effect. If it does count, then the following scenario is then valid (assuming they both follow the same rules):

A monster blinds me. I get a save at the end of my next turn. During my turn I move 3 squares, and then ready an action with the trigger "If my blindness wears off, I shoot a lance of faith at monster X". Since readying the action effectively ended my turn, I make my save against blindness. If I succeed, my readied action then triggers and I attack as normal. In a blindness situation where my target has moved, there's no way I'll make the required perception check to THEN target them at -5 to hit. By doing it 'the readied action way', I've given myself a 55% chance of negating the penalty.



Thank you for looking into this

 

[Tale]

You can't delay your turn to extend beneficial effects. You have to actually start your turn, end the effect, then before you act you declare the delay. At this point, the effect has already ended.

 

[keterys]

As a rule of thumb, if you're inflicting a penalty on an enemy it ends as soon as you delay the end of your turn in any way and if you're suffering a penalty it ends only after you've exhausted everything.

That is to say, if some combination of delay and ready is intended to give you a benefit in working around the duration of something, then either it doesn't work that way or it's not intended to.

 

[James McMurray]

PHB p. 288 should be helpful here.

 

[GorTeX]

When you delay (phb 288), your end of turn is not normal.
You end benificial effects the moment you delay (such as the last until end of turn bonus in the OP)
You end sustained effects the moment you delay
You end harmful effects after you act
You make saving throws after you act

When you Ready an action (pg 291), you act normally in your turn (even have the start of turn and end of turn phases), spending a standard action to ready to act later when the trigger happens (resetting your initiative)...so your 'last until end of turn' effects would end on the initiative count you readied on.

 

[Chaotic Archon]

Thank you all for helping me clarify/locate the appropriate rules for those 3 scenarios!

It is apparent that NONE of the three described scenarios are viable (which also seems the most fair overall to me).

It's hard to figure these things out when you have 3 other fellow players quoting you what they think the rules should be in addition to being hopped up on sugar/mt. dew.

Thanks Again.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Make people quote page numbers.
I find that shuts up a lot of the clueless.

 

[castro3nw]

Theoretically, you might be able to shoot your Lance of Faith, then spend an action point to ready an action for after player 2 or player 3 attacks. This should change your initiative enough to keep giving them the bonus in the next round.

 

[James McMurray]

Theoretically, you might be able to shoot your Lance of Faith, then spend an action point to ready an action for after player 2 or player 3 attacks. This should change your initiative enough to keep giving them the bonus in the next round.

When you ready, you still have an end of turn, whether you spend an action point or not. If you meant that you could use the readied action to fire off another buffing power, that would work. But readying won't let you extend an already active power any longer than delaying would.

 

[Milambus]

To have an ally benefit from bonuses that you give twice, have them Ready an Action to attack after you have attacked (hit or miss). It will work like this:

1. Party Member 1's turn (PM1)
2. PM1 moves then readies an attack triggering off when you attack.
3. PM1's turn ends
4. yada yada
5. Your turn begins.
6. You attack, hit and give PM1 +2 to attack.
7. PM1's readied action triggers (immediate reaction)
8. PM1 performs their attack, using the +2 to attack.
9. PM1's turn has now moved directly in front of yours in the init order (side effect of readying an action.)
10. Your turn ends, this is still the same turn a began in #5
11. Yada Yada
12. PM1's turn begins (now further back in the order, but still before you)
13. PM1 attacks, still gaining the +2 to attack.
13a. Optionally, PM1 uses an action point to attack again, using the +2 bonus.
14. PM1's turn end.
15. Your turn begins.
16. You do stuff.
17. Your turn ends, the +2 bonus to PM1 ends.