when is to much.........well to much

[emanresu]

In recent threads on damage output potential of gish builds I have noticed that a mid-teen leveled fighter/Barb could kill a Tarrasque in 1 melee round. Well with all the feats in a 2 handed power attack chain with combat brute, pounce, and with a valorous weapon, haste and a brilliant energy weapon or just wraithstrike cast upon...its possible and very likely a 15th level fighter / 1 Barbarian could cause 750 to 1000 hit points of damage in 1 round, maybe more, provided he moved 10 feet.

This optimization is new to me, I thought 2 wep fighting style was broken! I thought a fighter/rogue with imp fient was broken, a 13th level Duskblade was broken.........WOW was I wrong! Its the fighter/barbarian
with a 1 level dip for lion totem=pounce feat that is the damage king?

and here, all the while, I thought the fighter and Barbarian were
4th tier class (s)


eman

 

[kitcik]

In recent threads on damage output potential of gish builds I have noticed that a mid-teen leveled fighter/Barb could kill a Tarrasque in 1 melee round. Well with all the feats in a 2 handed power attack chain with combat brute, pounce, and with a valorous weapon, haste and a brilliant energy weapon or just wraithstrike cast upon...its possible and very likely a 15th level fighter / 1 Barbarian could cause 750 to 1000 hit points of damage in 1 round, maybe more, provided he moved 10 feet.

I am not sure of the exact numbers, but it is pretty ridiculous. I think there is a Hulking Hurler build, among others, that can do this level of damage as well. Even monks with Greater Mighty Wallop items can do this kind of damage or more.

This optimization is new to me, I thought 2 wep fighting style was broken! I thought a fighter/rogue with imp fient was broken, a 13th level Duskblade was broken.........WOW was I wrong!

Now you are comparing the bottom of the barrel (TWF) to the top (at least as far as melee damage output).

Its the fighter/barbarian
with a 1 level dip for lion totem=pounce feat that is the damage king?

No.

and here, all the while, I thought the fighter and Barbarian were
4th tier class (s)

They are. Now you have to understand that spells are that much better than even this amount of damage. Real life scenario: if you are a foot soldier and being attacked by a tank, would you rather (a) shoot at it, or (b) jam all of its electrical components (through an electro-magnetic pulse or something) so it can't fire? Damage is great if it gets through. Spells can do anything.

 

[parinho7]

In recent threads on damage output potential of gish builds I have noticed that a mid-teen leveled fighter/Barb could kill a Tarrasque in 1 melee round. Well with all the feats in a 2 handed power attack chain with combat brute, pounce, and with a valorous weapon, haste and a brilliant energy weapon or just wraithstrike cast upon...its possible and very likely a 15th level fighter / 1 Barbarian could cause 750 to 1000 hit points of damage in 1 round, maybe more, provided he moved 10 feet.

add shock trooper, leap attack, frenzied berserker and a belt of battle!!!

 

[emoplato]

In recent threads on damage output potential of gish builds I have noticed that a mid-teen leveled fighter/Barb could kill a Tarrasque in 1 melee round. Well with all the feats in a 2 handed power attack chain with combat brute, pounce, and with a valorous weapon, haste and a brilliant energy weapon or just wraithstrike cast upon...its possible and very likely a 15th level fighter / 1 Barbarian could cause 750 to 1000 hit points of damage in 1 round, maybe more, provided he moved 10 feet.

This optimization is new to me, I thought 2 wep fighting style was broken! I thought a fighter/rogue with imp fient was broken, a 13th level Duskblade was broken.........WOW was I wrong! Its the fighter/barbarian
with a 1 level dip for lion totem=pounce feat that is the damage king?

and here, all the while, I thought the fighter and Barbarian were
4th tier class (s)


eman

They still are, the tiers really don't rate power via damage. They rate power via ultimate capability, such as having these set abilities for x, y, and z situations. They are considered tier 4 because you can only tailor it to do a couple of things really well.
You have it correct, two-handed weapons produce by far the most damage per strike. The line of power attack, leap attack, battle jump(best charge feat ever!), shock trooper, as well as being mounted, valorous enchantments, and possibly dungeon crasher you could slay gods in one hit if you get the chance. They also give their value in damage much sooner and easier then two weapon builds(aside from MAD and more expenses) as they don't need to get more feats just to get extra chances at damaging an opponent. These builds are known as Uberchargers as they can most easily procure insane amounts of damage.
They do have drawbacks though these abilities mostly rely off of charging in other words they need to have a clear line of sight, straight line to the target, and decent terrain to move on unless they get abilities that say otherwise. You also can stop them in their tracks, remember they likely used heedless charge, so they can actually hit while power attacking away BAB, making them more vulnerable to AoO's(thicket of blades or hold the line). You could easily strike them down with knockback, knockdown, or the cheap brutal surge weapon enhancement before they can ever hit you with a player of exceptional reach.

 

[xigbar]

Here you go, eman resu. Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

To address what I think you're saying based upon your post and the thread title, Yes, Char. Op. can lead to game-breaking ridiculousness.

It comes down to what the DM will accept, and what the players will enjoy.

I have learned from experience that trying to play a Optimized character will result in the lack of fun for everyone, including me.

I have also learned that taking the things I've learned in Char Op boards and using them in very select moderation, leads to effective characters.

See it as an education, and consider moderation.

 

[Dandu]

I have learned from experience that trying to play a Optimized character will result in the lack of fun for everyone, including me.

Pfft. Do or do not, there is no try.

 

[kitcik]

T
I have learned from experience that trying to play a Optimized character will result in the lack of fun for everyone, including me.

You mean it is more fun to do many things moderately well than to do one thing so well you ruin the game for everyone?

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

I have learned from experience that trying to play a Optimized character will result in the lack of fun for everyone, including me.

I believe a more accurate statement would be that playing an optimized character in a party of unoptimized characters can result in a lack of fun. A party of all less-than-optimized characters can be plenty of fun; playing 3e "the way the designers intended" often works out that way. A party of all highly-optimized characters can be lots of fun, as can a party of various optimization levels where the better optimizer is playing the weaker class and/or supporting the team (e.g. optimizing a monk frontliner in a party of a blaster wizard, healer cleric, and sneaky rogue, or optimizing a buffer cleric or war weaver to support the team rather than overshadow them); that's how my group usually plays.

If you play an Ubercharger in a party that can't or doesn't want to make similar characters, of course no one else is going to have fun, because you're winning every combat by yourself. If you're an Ubercharger in the same party as a God Wizard and a CoDzilla, though, and if your DM knows how to challenge such a group, people can have fun just as much as with a party of lower optimization, if not more.

 

[Sekhmet]

Just to echo what has been said about the subject, I prefer games with less optimization. They seem to be more about fun and role playing and excitement than about who can wtfpwn everything the fastest.