D&D 5E When PCs Burst into a Room of Unsuspecting Enemies

[ThePaladinWay]

Which is absolutely fine, except that back in the OP he said:

Which is what's causing the problems here, because he's now looking for an appropriate penalty for a group of enemies who are taken unawares and yet, somehow, not surprised.

Just. Use. Surprise.

What I should have said was they did move to the door quietly, but were not entering the room trying to use stealth. When the encounter began, no one was trying to enter the room in stealth mode. That led me to think the surprise rules would not work. I have learned now the best approach is to treat is as stealth and surprise.

 

[keterys]

No, not quite. There is a big difference between not being able to move, use an action, or a reaction due to initiative in the second round not yet coming up (i.e. surprised) and being stunned.

There's a reason I said _almost_; the primary difference is that you can take your reaction once your initiative comes around.

 

[KarinsDad]

There's a reason I said _almost_; the primary difference is that you can take your reaction once your initiative comes around.

I realize that you said "almost", but it is not an almost difference. Advantage on attacks against, disadvantage on certain types of saves. That's a substantial difference. The odds of not getting hit and not making certain saves is significantly different between the two.

 

[keterys]

That's fair.

Actually, I think we were playing that you got advantage while folks were surprised. I'll need to doublecheck those rules. Thanks for the pointer.

 

[Skyscraper]

Like most people here, I would rule that the PCs get a suprise round, and that the PCs are located outside the room when the surprise round starts. I.e. "the door busts open, and... what do you do? You have surprise, and you have one round of actions to act before the enemies join the battle."

I'm unsure if it was addressed in this thread (I read diagonally), but I would possibly make the PCs roll one stealth check from the PC with the worst stealth score, outside the room, to determine whether they are stealthy enough to beat the highest passive perception in the room. The closed door is enough to give at least advantage on the roll, or +10 if you feel more generous - depends on the door I guess. I don't like multiple stealth checks because when you have numerous d20 rolls, one pretty much invariably fails. I prefer a single group check.

If you prefer simply depending on the story, you can forego the stealth check and give the PCs surprise, which is also possibly what I would do. I cannot say that I have a preference for one way or another of addressing this between a stealth check to gain surprise and automatic surprise, it's really a question of how I feel about it, how the door was described (e.g. if it's the door to a wooden shed in a silent area, or the door to the king's private room with a party going on in the adjacent room, the situation is not the same), and so on.

 

[ThePaladinWay]

Like most people here, I would rule that the PCs get a suprise round, and that the PCs are located outside the room when the surprise round starts. I.e. "the door busts open, and... what do you do? You have surprise, and you have one round of actions to act before the enemies join the battle."

I'm unsure if it was addressed in this thread (I read diagonally), but I would possibly make the PCs roll one stealth check from the PC with the worst stealth score, outside the room, to determine whether they are stealthy enough to beat the highest passive perception in the room. The closed door is enough to give at least advantage on the roll, or +10 if you feel more generous - depends on the door I guess. I don't like multiple stealth checks because when you have numerous d20 rolls, one pretty much invariably fails. I prefer a single group check.

If you prefer simply depending on the story, you can forego the stealth check and give the PCs surprise, which is also possibly what I would do. I cannot say that I have a preference for one way or another of addressing this between a stealth check to gain surprise and automatic surprise, it's really a question of how I feel about it, how the door was described (e.g. if it's the door to a wooden shed in a silent area, or the door to the king's private room with a party going on in the adjacent room, the situation is not the same), and so on.

Well said, thanks! This sounds just right.

 

[Rabbitbait]

No, not quite. There is a big difference between not being able to move, use an action, or a reaction due to initiative in the second round not yet coming up (i.e. surprised) and being stunned.

Actually, you can use a reaction in the first round if you are surprised - but only after your turn in the initiative order has passed.

From the basic rules under Surprise: "If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends."