D&D General When the fiction doesn't match the mechanics

[Micah Sweet]

NOt really though.

I have a scratch on my arm from a cat. It's visible, but, it in no way indicates anything about my condition. And that's, at most, what HP loss is. A couple of bruises. Maybe a fat lip? At least until that attack kills the PC, THEN that's a visible wound.

Otherwise, it makes no sense. If those minor physical injuries actually gave some guidance as to what condition the foe is in, then those physical injuries would impact the foe in some way. But they don't. They never have. Not in D&D anyway. I can't believe after all the years of this being shown over and over again, people still want to insist that HP=some sort of meat. They don't. Heck, in 5e, until you lose 50% of your HP, you do not have so much as a scratch on you, and that's straight from the rules.

Never minding things like short rests, where I can rest for an hour, and be restored to full HP, all without a single spell. What, do those physical injuries seal up and go away in an hour?

People keep trying to force narrative onto the mechanics that just isn't supported.

Again, poison.

 

[Red Castle]

Again, poison.

And as was said before, it could be just a minor scratch from a poisonous blade. Nothing serious, if it was not for the poison.

Sometimes when I come back from a hike I find one or two scratch on myself and could not tell when or where I got them. I certainly don't feel like I'm closer to death, I didn't even feel nothing when I got them.... now, if the plant was poisonous, that could be another story, maybe told by someone else....

Same could be said for a venomous spider bite. The bite itself does nothing, it's the venom that might kill you.

 

[Cadence]

NOt really though.

I have a scratch on my arm from a cat. It's visible, but, it in no way indicates anything about my condition. And that's, at most, what HP loss is. A couple of bruises. Maybe a fat lip? At least until that attack kills the PC, THEN that's a visible wound.

Otherwise, it makes no sense. If those minor physical injuries actually gave some guidance as to what condition the foe is in, then those physical injuries would impact the foe in some way. But they don't. They never have. Not in D&D anyway. I can't believe after all the years of this being shown over and over again, people still want to insist that HP=some sort of meat. They don't. Heck, in 5e, until you lose 50% of your HP, you do not have so much as a scratch on you, and that's straight from the rules.

Never minding things like short rests, where I can rest for an hour, and be restored to full HP, all without a single spell. What, do those physical injuries seal up and go away in an hour?

People keep trying to force narrative onto the mechanics that just isn't supported.

I guess someone could visualize all D&D creatures and characters as having a forcefield that can take a certain amount of physical and mental damage (measured in something called HP) before powering down completely. And imagine that without the forcefield there is a very real chance their soul/spark/whatever will take advantage of that freedom to flee the body leaving it dead. That seems to fit things if one looks at the penalties from taking damage and the way death works in the game.

I just find it easier to (1) take the words hit, wounds, cure, heal, regenerate, etc. as not totally divorced from the fiction, (2) assume HP must be a mishmash of damage capacity, stamina, luck and heroic chutzpah, and (3) assume the game designers decided it was easier to not bother with granular penalties and to realize most folks wanted a lot faster recovery these days than in 1e.

 

[Hussar]

Again, poison.

So?

Poison can be delivered by a minor scratch. As in something that would not, in any way, be considered an actual wound.

Additionally, you can still deliver poison through attacks that deal zero damage. A creature immune to non-magical attacks, for example, can still be poisoned by that attack. So, we know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that that target took no wound, yet is still poisoned.

Poison is not the slam-dunk that people seem to think it is.

 

[Hussar]

I just find it easier to (1) take the words hit, wounds, cure, heal, regenerate, etc. as not totally divorced from the fiction, (2) assume HP must be a mishmash of damage capacity, stamina, luck and heroic chutzpah, and (3) assume the game designers decided it was easier to not bother with granular penalties and to realize most folks wanted a lot faster recovery these days than in 1e.

But that's you adding something that isn't there. And has never, ever been there. It's entirely on you.

Great axe hits target for X damage that does not kill the target. I can narrate that in any way I want because the loss of HP is 100% divorced from the narrative. Electric blue butterflies explode from the target, it loses 15 HP. It's the old Final Fantasy games where the sprite shakes a bit and a number pops up above the target.

 

[Cadence]

But that's you adding something that isn't there. And has never, ever been there. It's entirely on you.

Great axe hits target for X damage that does not kill the target. I can narrate that in any way I want because the loss of HP is 100% divorced from the narrative. Electric blue butterflies explode from the target, it loses 15 HP. It's the old Final Fantasy games where the sprite shakes a bit and a number pops up above the target.

"Oh no, my butterfly count is low! Quick, bard, sing some of them back into me!' would certainly add some flavor to things.

It's just not where I would jump to first in a game with sharp things that used word like hit, wound, cure, heal, and regenerate in a genre or heroic stamina and luck.

 

[Hussar]

"Oh no, my butterfly count is low! Quick, bard, sing some of them back into me!' would certainly add some flavor to things.

It's just not where I would jump to first in a game with sharp things that used word like hit, wound, cure, heal, and regenerate in a genre or heroic stamina and luck.

But, again, that's my point. You are jumping to a particular narrative that is, in now way, actually supported by the mechanics. My butterfly example, while silly, is every bit as supported as your HP=wound.

Once you ignore that, and accept that any narrative is equally valid, then HP become a lot less problematic. And, you can do a lot more with them.

 

[Cadence]

But, again, that's my point. You are jumping to a particular narrative that is, in now way, actually supported by the mechanics. My butterfly example, while silly, is every bit as supported as your HP=wound.

Once you ignore that, and accept that any narrative is equally valid, then HP become a lot less problematic. And, you can do a lot more with them.

I never thought HP were problematic. They always seemed to be some combination of wound taking ability, luck, stamina and heroic grit when I thought about them. Any narration that seemed plausible based on the way the damage was taken has always seemed good to me.

EDIT: I will come up with a better example for this. <Deleted>
tor that the party will never notice which towns person must have been the one they chased through the briar patch because the briars don't scratch unless it's lethal, etc... well, go for it if it fits your story.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It bugs me quite a bit if fiction and mechanics get completely separated. In such cases I try to do something to bring them at least in a vague cohesion.

HP are the perennial D&D headache in this area. I don't think the standard rules can make sense if we want the associated fiction to be anything like normal human experience. If HP are not injury, why do you then cast healing spells, drink healing potions and apply healing kits when the HP is missing? Then again how they can be injury if you're fine next day at the latest? Some people have said that only the last hit that puts you in dying is a real injury, but if you actually do not die, you've recovered from that too by the next day.

I don't think lack of penalties from losing HP necessarily is in conflict with them representing injury. Studies have shown that due adrenaline people with serious injuries can keep going and not necessarily even realise they're injured. And in the game we're dealing with action heroes, so I can imagine them being visibly beaten and bleeding but gritting their teeth and pushing on.

How I deal with this is interpreting losing HP being at least a little bit injured. Same HP loss can be scratch for a mighty hero and mortal wound for a peasant, but both still got hurt. Then I use gritty rests and healing kit dependency to avoid good night's sleep fixing everything. It is not remotely realistic, but it brings it to at least within touching distance of reality to be passable for cinematic action adventure.

 

[Cadence]

It bugs me quite a bit if fiction and mechanics get completely separated. In such cases I try to do something to bring them at least in a vague cohesion.

HP are the perennial D&D headache in this area. I don't think the standard rules can make sense if we want the associated fiction to be anything like normal human experience. If HP are not injury, why do you then cast healing spells, drink healing potions and apply healing kits when the HP is missing? Then again how they can be injury if you're fine next day at the latest? Some people have said that only the last hit that puts you in dying is a real injury, but if you actually do not die, you've recovered from that too by the next day.

I don't think lack of penalties from losing HP necessarily is in conflict with them representing injury. Studies have shown that due adrenaline people with serious injuries can keep going and not necessarily even realise they're injured. And in the game we're dealing with action heroes, so I can imagine them being visibly beaten and bleeding but gritting their teeth and pushing on.

How I deal with this is interpreting losing HP being at least a little bit injured. Same HP loss can be scratch for a mighty hero and mortal wound for a peasant, but both still got hurt. Then I use gritty rests and healing kit dependency to avoid good night's sleep fixing everything. It is not remotely realistic, but it brings it to at least within touching distance of reality to be passable for cinematic action adventure.

I sometimes ponder having some physical penalty kick in when at half hit points to tie it down a little. But then it would be butterflies for everything up to the bit that brought them to half, and butterflies for everything between that and 0. And the narration used in my own game is fine without it.

But, on the plus side, it does give me a new symbol to put on healing potion bottles (and maybe what to put in them).