When the New Edition Doesn't Cut It

[MGibster]

Because... potato head halflings?

In my defense, I didn't notice the potato head halflings until after I purchased the book.

So, they don't have loans in the future?

No, it's not that. The economy just doesn't make sense when it comes to the price of goods. A 50 round drum magazine for your rifle costs 500 eurodollars. A cyber leg also costs 500 eurodollars. A drum magazine for a rifle is something a halfway competent machinest could make in their garage with some sheet metal and basic tools whereas a cybernetic leg requires sophisticated manufacturing infrastructure including a well educated workforce and a robust supply chain. But they're both 500 eurodollars?

The game takes place more than twenty years after the 4th Corporate War which disrupted a lot of the infrastructure meaning it's still difficult to manfucature things. So a crummy sub-compact car, the equivalent of a Yugo, costs about $20,000 euros, and is outside the reach of almost everyone. This doesn't explain why a sophisticated piece of equipment like a cybernetic leg costs the same amount as a drum magazine.

Some people might like the setting, but I don't. I don't like the idea that group of cyberpunks have to take the bus to their next mission because nobody can afford a Yugo let alone a van. I don't like the fact that the special ability of one of the character roles, the Nomad, is that they have access to a car. Their special ability is to be the group's ride? It's just incredibly lame. Combine the bad setting with lackluster combat rules and uninspiring cybernetics and it's just not a worthy successor to Cyberpunk 2020. Cyberpunk Red isn't the worst RPG I've ever played, but it's one of the most disappointing. And I feel bad saying this because I have a lot of love for Mike Pondsmith. Even after 30 years, the stuff he made for Cyberpunk 2020 is still good.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I still play Hero 5th and Pathfinder 1st as two of my 3 main games (the third is Cypher)

 

[Thomas Shey]

The game takes place more than twenty years after the 4th Corporate War which disrupted a lot of the infrastructure meaning it's still difficult to manfucature things. So a crummy sub-compact car, the equivalent of a Yugo, costs about $20,000 euros, and is outside the reach of almost everyone. This doesn't explain why a sophisticated piece of equipment like a cybernetic leg costs the same amount as a drum magazine.

Advanced 3D printing and circuit burning? There are some issues of scale I can see mattering here (that doesn't explain the drum magazine of course, but I think it can be rationalized why the car is more pricey than the cyberleg).

Some people might like the setting, but I don't. I don't like the idea that group of cyberpunks have to take the bus to their next mission because nobody can afford a Yugo let alone a van. I don't like the fact that the special ability of one of the character roles, the Nomad, is that they have access to a car. Their special ability is to be the group's ride? It's just incredibly lame. Combine the bad setting with lackluster combat rules and uninspiring cybernetics and it's just not a worthy successor to Cyberpunk 2020. Cyberpunk Red isn't the worst RPG I've ever played, but it's one of the most disappointing. And I feel bad saying this because I have a lot of love for Mike Pondsmith. Even after 30 years, the stuff he made for Cyberpunk 2020 is still good.

That said I've only skimmed my copy and certainly the early reviews were--mixed.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I still play Hero 5th and Pathfinder 1st as two of my 3 main games (the third is Cypher)

Even though if I was running I'd use the successor to both of those, there are absolutely changes between the current editions of Hero and Pathfinder that I can see being dealbreakers for the right person. (Ironically while I think I'd go with 6e, I'd play Hero 5e without hesitation, but I don't think I could be convinced to play PF1e--too D&D 3e for me).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

D&D 3.5Ed is my favorite iteration of the game. Besides the WotC stuff, I bought 3PP products for it AND many of the variant systems that popped up as well. I didn’t like 4Ed enough to ever run it, but I liked it enough to play it & buy the player-oriented products. 5Ed left me cold, and I haven’t spent a dime on it.

HERO, though, has been my favorite system since its initial release (as Champions) in the 1980s. I’d gladly play any version of it…except the FUZION rules.

 

[jdrakeh]

Wasn't 7th edition the one like, illegally published by that one guy in the UK and not Flying Buffalo, IIRC?

No, that was 6th. 7th was published by Fiery Dragon.

 

[billd91]

There are a few edition changes I have bounced off of in gaming. 4e D&D and Traveller: New Era being the most notable cases, both of which were far more radical departures from their predecessors than any other editions prior to them in their respective game lines. Interestingly, both also involved situations in which enthusiastic 3rd party support companies decided to part ways with the primary publisher during and as a result of the change. Traveller lost the support of Digest Group Publications and D&D lost Paizo.

 

[ThrorII]

Besides the usual D&D3.5 to 4th stuff, the one real recent edition change I don't like is The One Ring. Cubicle 7's 1e (actually their 1.5e revision) is a solid game I love. They lost the LotR license, so now it is with Free League, and their Lord of the Rings: The One Ring 2e game. While many of the game terms are the same, they are treated differently. The game is also much simpler and has less depth.

 

[aramis erak]

I've had it happen many times...

• Twilight 2000 2.2 the change from 2E's 1d10 vs Skill × DiffMult to 1d20 vs (Stat+Skill) × DiffMult, while not fixing the ability to punch a tank into submission if Str >10 and Unarmed Combat over 6, one can actually hurt APCs
• Traveller: The New Era (that's a thread length rant trigger - I'll spare most of it) - It was convertible to/from CT/MT, but not actually compatible, but was instead a port of MT to the TNE rules.
• L5R 4th ed ... the things I liked best about 3rd got pruned.
• Car Wars 5th - completely abandoned any semblance of RPG-ness
• The One Ring 2E: strongly dislike the increased randomness, the removal of cultural rewards, and the nerfing of Songs.
• Lots of D&D...
  • AD&D 2e. Kept the wrong elements, IMO, esp. Descending AC, percentile thief skills.
  • D&D 3.0 Fixed a few key things, but introduced a bunch more.
  • D&D 3.5 Didn't fix anything I wanted to see fixed
  • D&D 4 - fixed a few things I disliked about 3.x, but had the extra-length special Abilities
  • D&D 5 - Doesn't feel like any other edition at all for me. Not even partially. It's a good game, probably the best game with a D&D trademark, but it feels too different for me. ¹
• Ars Magica 4th - removal of the Rational Aura. Minor disappointment.
• WFRP 2E and 4E; IMO, the only things 1E needed fixing were more levels of skills and Divorced from the WFB 5-8 settings. 4E took all the 2E items I disliked (Esp Colors of Magic, smaller attribute gain increments) and doubled down on them.
• EABA 2E - The combat changes and wierdnesses of the playtest moved it away from feeling like a more mathematically validated WEG d6 system...
• WEG Star Wars 3rd edition... by not being released as such (It's released as D6 Space - which is still available, hastily stripped of Star Wars IP.)
• Arrowflight 2E - went from the dice pool mechanic to 2d6 mechanic, without changing character gen, and thus making starting characters go from 1E's relatively capable to almost incompetent.
• Albedo: Platinum Catalyst (Albedo 3e). Focused upon elements of the setting not addressed in the source comics... notably, the Independent Lapine Republic War. It's extremely tactically focused. Complete with rules for squads attached to the PCs. That its an entirely different engine isn't that big a deal.... but the wrong focus is.
• CORPS 3E, is a setting supplement for EABA 2e, and based upon CORPS 1E, not a revision of CORPS 2E, which is a generic using the 1E mechanics.
• The Fantasy Trip - Original was metric. Legacy is US/English Traditional Measures. Some jiggering about with experience & advancement.
• Cyberpunk after 2020. I didn't care for Cybergen thematically, V3 was a disastrous layout and writing mess, and 2077 came out too long after I quit giving a damn about CP.
• Prime Directive - I love 1st ed's dice pool mechanics. PD20, DP20M and GPD both left me going "WTF is the point?" - neither of those two are set up to do Starfleet campaigns. 1E was, and is wonderfully contrived to make PCs big-damned heroes, not because they're special ops troops, but because in PD 1E, it's not simulating the special ops team, but the Tri-Vids about the special ops team. And while I could run that with either of the later ones, but they'd do nothing to help me do that.

Not all the games I've run two editions of were disappointments...

• I prefer MegaTraveller to Classic, but it's by a thin margin.
• I prefer the D&D Cyclopedia/Wrath to Mentzer BECMI, and BECMI to Moldvay-Cook BX, and both of those over AD&D 1E and OE (but admitting that I didn't get OE until the 90's)
• T&T - I like 7th and deluxe as well as I like 5th and 5.5. Which I use depends on the players I intend to run for
• I like LUG Trek better than FASA Trek, but I still like FASA Trek enough that I might run it if players want the old-school experience. And FASA-Trek 2E was a minor improvement in almost all areas, but yet fully backwards compatible.
• I like Burning Wheel Gold better than Burning Wheel Revised.
• I like most of the changes to Mouse Guard 2E; it's not a disappointment, but it does make wises unrollable, so it's a mixed bag. If one's not seriously into the mechanics, you'd miss the changes.
• Mekton Zeta is better than Mekton II. At least, it is if one can wrap their brain around the Mekton Technical System (Which was a supplement in 1E, essentially a concealed half-edition; a portion of it is in MZ core, the full version in MZ+)

 

[JAMUMU]

Mutants&Masterminds 3rd Edition did me wrong. So wrong it put me off 2nd edition, which was my go-to for supers games.

When 2nd edition AD&D came out I thought it was awful and avoided it. Nowadays it's my favourite version of D&D to run.