When to Have An Enemy Attack Its Ally to Regain Consciousness

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

From a DM's perspective, given that certain powers that characters possess can knock enemies out (unconscious) for a long period of time (for example, Slumber of the Winter Court), or until they take damage, when would it be appropriate for an enemy to attack one of its allies in order for that ally to regain consciousness? If at all. Granted, I already do figure intelligence into the equation (and yet, I still dont have that part down to an exact science), as well as, happenstance damage from close and area attacks.
On one hand, i dont want to shortchange any players, but on the other hand, sometimes a substantial amount of enemies, or the toughest enemies in the encounter can be knocked out for a long period of time. Thus, I'm trying to find a, "happy medium," or exactly how I should go about running it, taking into consideration that an enemy spending its turn to attack an ally, as well as causing damage to that ally, is pretty powerful in-and-of itself.
I was thinking maybe, as a general rule, for moderately intelligent enemies: when all enemies are bloodied, i.e., the battle is turning against them,
Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Nichwee]

Well I would have it depend on if the enemies not unconcious know anything about the effect. At the very least I would expect them to try the following (one/turn or maybe round)

1) Shout at the "sleeping" person (Free Action)
2) Give them a nudge (Minor Action if adjacent)
3) Shake them vigorously (Move Action if adjacent - may provoke OA)
4) Attack them if desperate (Normal Action of the attack - so cost them a turn most likely)

But take into account that the enemy may not know anything about how this effect works (as they weren't hit by it) so there is no guarantee that they would assume damage wakes the target - considering being shook violently doesn't work - unless they have seen evidence of this.

I personally would only have an enemy wound his own side as part of an AoE or if they were very evil and had no loyalty to each other to speak of (so despot leader hurts his lackeys to get them up but bandits would generally run away rather than hurt a friend to try to improve their chances in the fight).

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Thanks. I like how you broke it down into steps/stages. Yes, I do take into account whether or not the enemies know how a power works, and I guess it may take a knowledge check, albeit, I dont like getting bogged down with having enemies make knowledge checks, I'm more apt to do it if there is an intelligent leader or controller in the group.
My group is at epic tier right now, so a lot of their encounters are against highly intelligent foes. The last time this was an issue, the group was fighting Dispater, and some of his cohorts, and the illusionist in the group knocked the cohorts out with Slumber of the Winter Court, and left Dispater, solo. And I couldn't quite figure out when Dispater would start whapping his cohorts in the head and such. But I like how you put it in stages. Good idea. Thanks again.

 

[Dausuul]

The last time this was an issue, the group was fighting Dispater, and some of his cohorts, and the illusionist in the group knocked the cohorts out with Slumber of the Winter Court, and left Dispater, solo. And I couldn't quite figure out when Dispater would start whapping his cohorts in the head and such. But I like how you put it in stages. Good idea. Thanks again.

Well, first of all, any time you're fighting an archdevil, demon lord, or god, I think the answer to "Is this entity smart enough/knowledgeable enough to use this tactic?" is always "Yes." Dispater knows perfectly well how Slumber of the Winter Court works, he's seen it a hundred times. (Same for every other power out there.) If thwacking his allies in the head is the most efficient way to get them up, that's just what he'll do, and if the players whine, it may be appropriate to thwack them in the head*. This is Epic, boys and girls. You know those divination rituals you thought were so cool at Heroic tier? When you cast those spells, the entities that picked up the phone to answer are the same guys you're fighting now.

In a more general sense, I would probably use some kind of Arcana check (Religion for divine casters, maybe History or Dungeoneering for martial characters). PCs can make checks to know how monster powers work, why can't monsters do the same? I wouldn't roll for every little thing, but in a case like this it's reasonable... I suggest a Medium or Easy DC based on the PCs' level.

[size=-2]*Thwacking players in the head should only be undertaken by a trained medical professional.[/size]

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Heal check could also work!

 

[Otterscrubber]

Interesting question. A spell that puts someone to sleep and one that renders them unconcious I beleive has the exact same game mechanic (unconcious). So whether or not they wake up is really a matter of flavor I would assume. I would say it takes a lot, so that the power gets some effect. Someone who was knocked unconcious by a martial attack (physical trauma) I dont see being woken up by further phsycial trauma.

Someone who is asleep perhaps you could say is easier to wake up. Although sleeping beauty could not be roused except by very specific circumstances so perhaps this is not fair either. Up to the DM I guess. Although if you are going to run into charm powers rendering foes unconcious on a regular basis it would be good to work this out ahead of time.

 

[vaultdweller]

Interesting question. A spell that puts someone to sleep and one that renders them unconcious I beleive has the exact same game mechanic (unconcious). So whether or not they wake up is really a matter of flavor I would assume. I would say it takes a lot, so that the power gets some effect. Someone who was knocked unconcious by a martial attack (physical trauma) I dont see being woken up by further phsycial trauma.

Someone who is asleep perhaps you could say is easier to wake up. Although sleeping beauty could not be roused except by very specific circumstances so perhaps this is not fair either. Up to the DM I guess. Although if you are going to run into charm powers rendering foes unconcious on a regular basis it would be good to work this out ahead of time.

The OP is referring to a specific power mechanic, which renders an enemy unconscious for one hour or until they take damage. It isn't a question of whether the target can be woken up by attacking it - it can, and that is spelled out in the power text. The question is when enemies should attempt to do so.