When to use Luck Points, Action Points, Hero Points

[woodelf]

My game uses Luck Points. PCs (and only PCs) get one LP at character creation, and then one at each level up. They do not regenerate. Once used, the Player hands me back the poker chip. Using a LP lets the Player reroll one die.

I like this house rule. My Players like this house rule. It seems to work well. But something came up last game session that pointed out a potential problem.

Should a Player find out the result of the die roll before deciding to cash in a LP? For instance, rolling a 1 on a save is obviously a bad result. But there are different degrees of "bad". Failing a save versus doom is not as bad as failing a save vs. hold person is not as bad as failing a save vs. phantasmal killer is not as bad as failing a save vs. disentigrate, etc.

And what if revealing the spell or effect, to let the Player decide whether to use LP or not, also reveals a secret ("He can cast a 7th-level spell?!").

And rolling saves against spells is not the only thing that can open this can of worms. "Holy crap, that's Con poison?!" "He does 22 points of damage with a grapple check?!" Etc.

Should a DM using Luck Points, Action Points, Hero Points, whatever, tell what the results are of a failed roll or make the Player decide without knowledge of how bad the result is? I mean, one way you can have Players "wasting" LP on nuisance problems, and you can have them decline a new roll on save-or-die situations.

Should a DM give a hint, "You *really* should consider using a LP for this."?

Quasqueton

It depends on how much influence you want the luck points to have on the game. With so few of them (only one per level), if you want them to have a significant influence, you should definitely let the players decide after the roll. Heck, if it were my game, i'd let them decide after the results of the roll are known--basically, the LP becomes a "get out of jail free" card.

I'd also hand out more of them, though not tons more. But if there's the potential for "wasting" a LP, then you *definitely* need to make earning them more common, IMHO. So, if you're going to go with spending the point before the result is known, i'd recommend making it easier to earn LPs in the first place.

It seems to me that you've already made the decision that you want to give the players a bit more control over how the game goes, or you wouldn't be using LPs. Given that, you should make the LPs significant enough in the play of the game to actually alter the level of control a player has. Yes, it means that they'll get out of a few more jams, and effectively be a bit more powerful. But if all you're letting LPs do is give a reroll, then all you're doing is eliminating the occasional abysmal roll--it's really just fudging in the hands of the players, but they have to decide when it's important enough to fudge. If you were making LPs more powerful, then you might need to worry more about their use. But it sounds like they're really just a small cushion, a small measure of player control over the way the game goes. After all, the players are there to have fun, not to win, and random really bad luck is never fun.

OK, i'm starting to ramble, so we're gonna call it done.

 

[Hodgie]

As many have said, it depends on what they represent. Yours seem to be rare enough that allowing them as much information as necessary to ensure they are not wasted would be wise.

rant
I use Action Points and feel that they should be used before the initial roll is even made. These are supposed to be ACTION points, used for heroic actions. Allowing them to be spent after the initial roll makes them anti-failure points. Players only use them when they failed by 1-3 points and wish they hadn't. There is nothing heroic or action oriented about that.
/rant

 

[Berandor]

We use Action Points from Eberron like written, i.e. before the result is clear. Sometimes, though, the result can be easily guessed at (i.e.: I hit the troll with a 16 last time, now I got a 12 - I can do it).

Players freely use AP, and it's a great system, I think. I'm just waiting for my group to mee the first NPC that uses them

 

[Lord Pendragon]

At no time will I adjust rolls to keep PCs alive. However, unlike other individuals in the campaign world, the PCs are special. This is reflected in Karma. Each PC begins the game with 1d4 karma points, plus any points awarded by me for other things (such as a good character write-up). One karma point can successfully convert a failed save into a made save, an enemy’s critical hit into a normal hit, or an enemy’s normal hit into a miss. Once used, karma points are gone forever. Karma points may be gained by successfully completing quests, though there is no guarantee that they will be. Since there is no sure way to replenish karma, I suggest using it sparingly.

I use Luck Points (Karma for me,) as a safety valve for the PCs. They keep strikingly bad luck, or lazy combat design on my part, from ruining the campaign. As such I allow them to have concrete, dependable power.

I used to allow them to convert an enemy's made save into a failure as well, but that turned out working badly.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I use Action Points and feel that they should be used before the initial roll is even made. These are supposed to be ACTION points, used for heroic actions. Allowing them to be spent after the initial roll makes them anti-failure points. Players only use them when they failed by 1-3 points and wish they hadn't. There is nothing heroic or action oriented about that.

That's just because you need to work on your descriptions a bit.

A player who spends an action point to turn a near miss into a hit has done something heroic and action-oriented!

It changes a round of poking your rapier at the bad guy from:

"You parry in quarte, and his blade moves past you, out of line. Your opening presents itself and you lunge, your blade seeking his heart, but he recovers too quickly for you and neatly parries. 'You'll have to try harder than that, Jonath.'"

to:

"You parry in quarte, and his blade moves past you, out of line. Your opening presents itself and you lunge, your blade seeking his heart, when inspiration suddenly hits! You drop your blade slightly, and spin quickly to the left as his parry moves across, failing to engage your blade! A flick of the wrist as you complete your circle, and a bright red line appears on your opponent's forearm; a hit! He touches it, blood staining the fingers of his black leather glove. 'You're better than I thought, pirate.'"

 

[KB9JMQ]

I use the Eberron Action Points as is, but I let my players use them for about anything as long as it makes the game fun.
I also give them an additional AP everytime they take a critical hit.
I like to make sure they wade into battle more often

 

[blargney the second]

Here's our system:
- Action Points used after success or failure is determined add 1d6 to the roll.
- Those used before the initial die is thrown add 1d8.
- APs are given when the character does something cool or heroic.

I like the idea of letting players use them to take back stupid things they've said.
-blarg