Where are the stats for guns in FR?

[Shag]

They talk about smokepowder alot but never seem to mention the guns themselves...am I missing something?

Where are the stats for FR guns?
Or are they just the same as the ones listed in the DMG...I remember the 2nd edition had a bunch of funky guns...

 

[drnuncheon]

They use the DMG stats.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I modded the rules for guns somewhat because I didn't feel they were deadly enough. My system requires the target to make a Fortitude save DC 10+damage dealt or else be reduced to -1 hp and begin dying. Guns can also only affect creatures up to one size category larger in this way, anything larger and it'd be like killing someone with a BB gun. Since gnomes are the primary creators of firearms in FR this means they can only kill medium sized creatures with a single shot from their small pistols. It has worked well since most mooks will fail the save but when you are dealing with higher end villans their fortitude saves are usually high enough for them to make the save without too much effort. I also made gunshots a ranged touch attack except against magical force effects and armor that had been specially made to resist it (equal to +1 magical effect). I wanted to make guns as dangerous as they are supposed to be... a pirate pointing a gun in your face should be a serious thing... not countered with "Well I have 30 HP and that gun only does d8 damage". Considering the rarity of smokepowder and the guns themselves this hasn't unbalanced the setting.

"Lord Ao made all creatures... Lantanese Gnomes made em equal"

 

[drnuncheon]

I modded the rules for guns somewhat because I didn't feel they were deadly enough.

...as opposed to swords? Cos, you know, swords aren't deadly at all...

80% of people shot with modern handguns survive.

My system requires the target to make a Fortitude save DC 10+damage dealt or else be reduced to -1 hp and begin dying.

Beware rogues and sneak attacks. "Fort save, DC 45."

I wanted to make guns as dangerous as they are supposed to be... a pirate pointing a gun in your face should be a serious thing... not countered with "Well I have 30 HP and that gun only does d8 damage".

Surely this 'problem' exists with a sword at your throat as well? It sounds like you want an alternate wound system, not an alternate gun system.

J

 

[Calico_Jack73]

...as opposed to swords? Cos, you know, swords aren't deadly at all...
80% of people shot with modern handguns survive.
Beware rogues and sneak attacks. "Fort save, DC 45."
Surely this 'problem' exists with a sword at your throat as well? It sounds like you want an alternate wound system, not an alternate gun system.
J

Yep but it is easier to find D&D players rather than players for other games.
Your 80% figure is because of our modern health care system. In D&D it wouldn't be much different, even a single HP of healing from a Paladin's touch or a Cure Minor Wounds orison from a Cleric would stabilize a gunshot victim. Then again for some reason in D&D decaptiations never happen in combat unless someone wields a vorpal sword and nobody ever gets a limb chopped off except in the case of a sword of sharpness.
In D&D fantasy sword combat I'd imagine that limbs would be the primary targets because the chest is usually the most armored location on the body. In modern firearms combat center mass is always the location of choice. The majority of sword strikes will be to the limbs which aren't immediately life threatening. The majority of gunshot wounds are in the chest which is almost ALWAYS life threatening. Unfortunately there is no perfect combat system and there probably will never be.

In reference to the Rogue bit... a sword in the back should pretty much spell the end of ANY character. Is it balanced for a game? No. Realistic? Yes. Hit either lung (largest organ in the upper chest cavity) and you create a sucking chest wound. Shock is also not taken into account with such a grevious wound nor is the loss of combat effectiveness from getting almost no oxygen from breathing. Hit the heart and you are just dead... period.

 

[drnuncheon]

Then again for some reason in D&D decaptiations never happen in combat unless someone wields a vorpal sword and nobody ever gets a limb chopped off except in the case of a sword of sharpness.

Exactly my point. You're taking a 'problem' - or let's say an artifact - of the D&D rules, and then only fixing part of it. I just thought that was an odd thing to do, when the same artifact exists with longbows and swords.

Hit the heart and you are just dead... period.

Right. The point of hit points, though, is not that you take a hit to the heart and survive. It's that you take a hit that on a normal person would have hit your heart, but on you - thanks to luck, skill, divine favor, sheer badassedness, plot protection, or any number of other reasons - it doesn't.

So in the case of that pirate, it's not "I'm so tough I can get shot point-blank in my naked chest and survive", it's "that pistol just wavered a bit...I'll bet that if I spun and ducked, he'd only clip me, and then I can take him."

Dumb idea in RL, but perfectly acceptible in heroic fantasy.

J

 

[Calico_Jack73]

So in the case of that pirate, it's not "I'm so tough I can get shot point-blank in my naked chest and survive", it's "that pistol just wavered a bit...I'll bet that if I spun and ducked, he'd only clip me, and then I can take him."
Dumb idea in RL, but perfectly acceptible in heroic fantasy.

Do you know of any realistic fantasy games? I've never been a fan of abstract combat and am always on the lookout for a game that provides a better, more realistic combat system. I like Rolemaster but I'm just not too fond of all the charts.

 

[drnuncheon]

Do you know of any realistic fantasy games?

I'd give GURPS a try - a lot of the 'fixes' to D&D combat seem to make it a lot closer to GURPS.

- active defense mechanics: parry (with a weapon), block (with a shield), dodge
- armor acts as deflection of blows and as damage reduction
- characters don't get ever-increasing numbers of hit points

Plus a skill-based system rather than a class-based system.

It's also not perfect:

INT and DEX are very valuable, so unles you limit them you will see lots of people operating on 'natural talent' (high investment in stats, low investment in skills.)

Not everyone likes the default magic system, which is very scientific (to make a fireball, you have to also know the spells to create a flame and move the flame...)

When you get to high skill levels, combat becomes a game of waiting for the other guy to screw up. While that's incredibly realistic, it's not always the most fun.

I believe the quick-start rules are available online as a free PDF - ah, here they are: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/3e/gurpslit.pdf. Check them out and drop me a line if you have any questions. (j e f f j at i o d o t c o m) I haven't played for a couple of years, but it's still a great game.

J

 

[Calico_Jack73]

You know... I've had GURPS for a good long time but I've never had the chance to play it because I've never found a group that plays it. :\

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I've never been a fan of overpowering guns. A heavy crossbow is an extremely deadly weapon in real life. There's no real reason to make a gun more deadly than that. And a good number of bullet wounds do hit non-vital locations (legs, arms, shoulders, or are just flesh wounds). A Palestinian classmate of mine had an M-16 wound to the torso that he received as an 8-year-old.
But, basically, the crossbows=guns relationship is not bad. PCs should be as scared with a gun pointed at their head as they are with a heavy crossbow pointed at their head. That is, very scared in a WP/VP system or when they are helpless, or not too bothered in most other cases.