Which class is most powerful?

[Harlock]

Yeah, but did he actually excell at any of these things? In a standard cleric/wizard/rogue/fighter breakdown, the cleric would be dumb to regularly take up any of the other roles. A bonus to hit/damage is more beneficial in the hands of the fighter, than the cleric, hp for the wizard who needs to stay in the fight or dex for the rogue. A cleric could spend time to buff himself up into a powerhouse, but i maintain that the party as a whole would suffer and would be better off with a specialist as a fourth member. And while the 3.0 buffs had largly allowed for a cleric to have its cake and eat it to, time is now much more of a consideration. A cleric can buff himself to fighter like ability, but to judge his true utility, you would have to compare his subsequent damage to the damage a fighter does in those same rounds + the damage a fighter inflicted in the prep rounds.

EDIT: the cleric is a powerful class, but i don't think it really stands up in play to the image many poster have of it.

He stands out precisely because he is so good (I never said the best at melee or spells) at so many things. His versatility and not sucking at at least something fairly important (skills aside) make him easily the most powerful in my experience and again, YMMV.

 

[applenerd]

Yeah, but did he actually excell at any of these things? In a standard cleric/wizard/rogue/fighter breakdown, the cleric would be dumb to regularly take up any of the other roles. A bonus to hit/damage is more beneficial in the hands of the fighter, than the cleric, hp for the wizard who needs to stay in the fight or dex for the rogue. A cleric could spend time to buff himself up into a powerhouse, but i maintain that the party as a whole would suffer and would be better off with a specialist as a fourth member. And while the 3.0 buffs had largly allowed for a cleric to have its cake and eat it to, time is now much more of a consideration. A cleric can buff himself to fighter like ability, but to judge his true utility, you would have to compare his subsequent damage to the damage a fighter does in those same rounds + the damage a fighter inflicted in the prep rounds.

EDIT: the cleric is a powerful class, but i don't think it really stands up in play to the image many poster have of it.

If damage dealing is our standard of how powerful a class is then I think another thing to take into account is how much additional damage a fighter (or any other class) is able to do BECAUSE of a cleric. This might be because the fighter (in this example) got buffed up a bit, or because he had been healed and didn't get killed, thus allowing him to continue fighting. I think that's what makes this such a difficult thing to judge.

Personally I voted for Wizard but that is probably largely due to the fact that I simply enjoy playing them most. In my campaign there are 6 players, and each one plays a different class. Each of them have had their shining moments but I would say that overall the ranger has been consistently most effective. However he is only allowed to do so because the rest of the team protects him as he uses his bow.

I guess what I'm saying is that this is a pretty tough question to answer!

 

[Dark Jezter]

I think that the "most powerful class" depends heavily on what you're trying to do. There are situations where a good warrior will be necessary, situations where a rogue will prove indespensible, and times when you'll need the magic spells cast by a wizard or cleric to get you out of a pinch.

Still, in terms of overall importance to the party, I'd vote for cleric.

 

[Grishnak]

Hi all!

Looking forward to the eventual results - since the impetus was sparked by a discussion between Bauglir and myself.

Though I would have though a "What are the three most powerful classes" might have shown better results.

I am curious as to who actually voted for the Fighter and why though?

God knows who went the warrior way but obviously they haven't seen clerics and wizards chewing everything up like I have. The melee types take on a bystander roll while cleric and wizard dish out the damage.

I voted for wizard although I'd have liked to do both wizard and cleric. Upon reflection I'd go with cleric 1st then wizard as they can be front line fighters aswell as blasters. 1 spell pops to mind that can waste pretty much most creatures is slime wave, tons of constituition damage dealt to multiple creatures.

 

[reapersaurus]

Flawed poll:

you didn't specify AT WHAT LEVEL.

"Power" of the classes varies quite a bit by level.

If you're talking 1st level, it's hard to argue against the fighter or Barbarian.

OTOH, At 20th level, anyone who doesn't immediately say "Wizard" is fooling themselves.

 

[Psiblade]

I definitely agree that level makes a big difference. At high levels, wizards and clerics are the most powerful. At lower levels, there is not as much difference. I voted wizard, but clerics are a close second.


-Psiblade

 

[S'mon]

Hi all!
I am curious as to who actually voted for the Fighter and why though?

Fighter's a good class with 25-point buy & standard magic. Greater Weapon Spec keeps them viable at higher levels. They don't compare to a Cleric though. The only way Clerics don't dominate is if they have to use all their spells to heal & buff the other party members. If you have 2+ Clerics in a group they are much the most powerful (in 3.0 it was just painful, in 3.5 maybe not so bad).

 

[Numion]

OTOH, At 20th level, anyone who doesn't immediately say "Wizard" is fooling themselves.

At 20th level Cleric would still be my answer. Cleric is much better on the defense, especially with the right domains, and almost as good as wizard on the offense side, if we're thinking about spells.

At least thats how we've played clerics all along - don't go anywhere without 3-5 Protection from Elements, Deathwards, Freedom of Movements, Spell Immunities. With splatbooks it gets even worse.

It's not as clear as you said. In our games (which were / are 3.0, I'll admit) the cleric has been consistently most powerful character, unless 3.0 Archmage super-DC madness is included.

 

[Sullaf]

Euhm I'm I the only one who thinks that wizards in general (provided they last the first few levels) kick the living daylight out of every other class? I mean c'mon. There is a spell for just about anything. Armour? Good BaB? Who cares? A wizard will blast you anyway. Or he will not kill you but just 'neutralize' you. Or turn you into a goat.

Yes clerics are good when combined with a party. Yes they have all kinds of nifty stuff. Yes they will die when confronted with fireball and the like. We all know the flying invissible flame thrower. Now ask yourself this: which class is capable of defeating that...

 

[rounser]

How much of this depends on the opposition - that is, DM style - though? i.e. A DM who has monsters take on the nearest opponents (i.e. the frontline fighters) every time, versus a DM who has them run straight past the meat shields (despite AoOs) and focus all attacks on the casters every time?