TarionzCousin
Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
How does your group handle Diplomacy in your game?
Options:
Exactly as in the SRD.
SRD Modified Somewhat.
House Rules.
Monte Cook’s Alternative (see spoiler).
Monte Cook’s Will Check Variant (see spoiler).
Rich Burlew’s Alternative (see spoiler).
We don’t use any Diplomacy rules.
We always roleplay out the interaction without any dice rolling.
Other, and I’m not explaining either. Nyah!
Diplomacy Alternative Rules
Monte Cook’s Alternative
[sblock]The person attempting to "win over" the target or convince the target of something he believes to be true (if it's a lie it's a Bluff check) makes a Diplomacy check as normal. The target makes an opposed roll using the following formula:
1d20 + target's HD + target's Wisdom modifier + current attitude modifier = result
Current Attitude Modifiers
Hostile: +20 (or more, DM's discretion)
Unfriendly: +10
Indifferent: +0
Friendly: -5
Helpful: -10
If the character's Diplomacy check is higher, then the character succeeds at what he was attempting. Of course, using Diplomacy to get a small discount at a shop is vastly different than attempting to get a dark elf raiding party to leave a village alone.
The key that makes this system work is the ability of the DM to assign circumstance modifiers on the fly based on the situation and what the PC is trying to accomplish with the roll. Does the character have a reputation the target knows about? Is he trying to convince the target to do something, or just to like him? If the former, does he want the target to do something she might do anyway, or something she'd never normally do without a great deal of coaxing?
Here are some very broad guidelines:
• Character has known, good reputation: +5 bonus to Diplomacy check
• Character has known, bad reputation: -5 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something fairly run of the mill: +0 bonus to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something distasteful: -2 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something inconvenient: -5 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something disadvantageous: -10 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something dangerous: -20 penalty to Diplomacy check[/sblock]
Monte Cook’s Will Check Variant
[sblock]Slight Variant: As above, but use the target's Will save modifier instead of his Hit Dice. This makes almost all targets easier to influence, particularly those not known for their willpower.[/sblock]
Rich Burlew's Alternative Rule
[sblock]Summary: Base DC 15 + Level of Highest Level Character + Wisdom Modifier of Highest Wisdom Character +/- Relationship Factor +/- Risk vs. Rewards Factor.
The Relationship: Whether they love, hate, or have never met each other, the relationship between two people always influences any request.
-10 Intimate: Someone who with whom you have an implicit trust. Example: A lover or spouse.
-7 Friend: Someone with whom you have a regularly positive personal relationship. Example: A long-time buddy or a sibling.
-5 Ally: Someone on the same team, but with whom you have no personal relationship. E.g., A cleric of the same religion or a knight serving the same king.
-2 Acquaintance (Positive): Someone you have met several times with no particularly negative experiences. Example: The blacksmith that buys your looted equipment regularly.
+0 Just Met: No relationship whatsoever. Example: A guard at a castle or a traveler on a road.
+2 Acquaintance (Negative): Someone you have met several times with no particularly positive experiences. Example: A town guard that has arrested you for drunkenness once or twice.
+5 Enemy: Someone on an opposed team, with whom you have no personal relationship. Example: A cleric of a philosophically-opposed religion or an orc bandit who is robbing you.
+7 Personal Foe: Someone with whom you have a regularly antagonistic personal relationship. Example: An evil warlord whom you are attempting to thwart, or a bounty hunter who is tracking you down for your crimes.
+10 Nemesis: Someone who has sworn to do you, personally, harm. Example: The brother of a man you murdered in cold blood.
Risk vs. Reward Judgement:
-10 Fantastic: The reward for accepting the deal is very worthwhile, and the risk is either acceptable or extremely unlikely. The best-case scenario is a virtual guarantee. Example: An offer to pay a lot of gold for something of no value to the subject, such as information that is not a secret.
-5 Favorable: The reward is good, and the risk is tolerable. If all goes according to plan, the deal will end up benefiting the subject. Example: A request to aid the party in battle against a weak goblin tribe in return for a cut of the money and first pick of the magic items.
+0 Even: The reward and risk are more or less even, or the deal involves neither reward nor risk. Example: A request for directions to someplace that is not a secret.
+5 Unfavorable: The reward is not enough compared to the risk involved; even if all goes according to plan, chances are it will end up badly for the subject. Example: A request to free a prisoner the subject is guarding (for which he or she will probably be fired) in return for a small amount of money.
+10 Horrible: There is no conceivable way the proposed plan could end up with the subject ahead, or the worst-case scenario is guaranteed to occur. Example: A offer to trade a bit of dirty string for a castle. [/sblock]
I have used and will continue to use Rich Burlew's method. It looks like a lot, but it is easy to remember after using it a couple times. Plus, the two factors it takes into account, relationship and risk/reward, really help me analyze the situation quickly and give my players the most accurate semi-realistic option possible.
This is the end. You can go no further.
Options:
Exactly as in the SRD.
SRD Modified Somewhat.
House Rules.
Monte Cook’s Alternative (see spoiler).
Monte Cook’s Will Check Variant (see spoiler).
Rich Burlew’s Alternative (see spoiler).
We don’t use any Diplomacy rules.
We always roleplay out the interaction without any dice rolling.
Other, and I’m not explaining either. Nyah!
Diplomacy Alternative Rules
Monte Cook’s Alternative
[sblock]The person attempting to "win over" the target or convince the target of something he believes to be true (if it's a lie it's a Bluff check) makes a Diplomacy check as normal. The target makes an opposed roll using the following formula:
1d20 + target's HD + target's Wisdom modifier + current attitude modifier = result
Current Attitude Modifiers
Hostile: +20 (or more, DM's discretion)
Unfriendly: +10
Indifferent: +0
Friendly: -5
Helpful: -10
If the character's Diplomacy check is higher, then the character succeeds at what he was attempting. Of course, using Diplomacy to get a small discount at a shop is vastly different than attempting to get a dark elf raiding party to leave a village alone.
The key that makes this system work is the ability of the DM to assign circumstance modifiers on the fly based on the situation and what the PC is trying to accomplish with the roll. Does the character have a reputation the target knows about? Is he trying to convince the target to do something, or just to like him? If the former, does he want the target to do something she might do anyway, or something she'd never normally do without a great deal of coaxing?
Here are some very broad guidelines:
• Character has known, good reputation: +5 bonus to Diplomacy check
• Character has known, bad reputation: -5 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something fairly run of the mill: +0 bonus to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something distasteful: -2 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something inconvenient: -5 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something disadvantageous: -10 penalty to Diplomacy check
• Character attempts to convince target to do something dangerous: -20 penalty to Diplomacy check[/sblock]
Monte Cook’s Will Check Variant
[sblock]Slight Variant: As above, but use the target's Will save modifier instead of his Hit Dice. This makes almost all targets easier to influence, particularly those not known for their willpower.[/sblock]
Rich Burlew's Alternative Rule
[sblock]Summary: Base DC 15 + Level of Highest Level Character + Wisdom Modifier of Highest Wisdom Character +/- Relationship Factor +/- Risk vs. Rewards Factor.
The Relationship: Whether they love, hate, or have never met each other, the relationship between two people always influences any request.
-10 Intimate: Someone who with whom you have an implicit trust. Example: A lover or spouse.
-7 Friend: Someone with whom you have a regularly positive personal relationship. Example: A long-time buddy or a sibling.
-5 Ally: Someone on the same team, but with whom you have no personal relationship. E.g., A cleric of the same religion or a knight serving the same king.
-2 Acquaintance (Positive): Someone you have met several times with no particularly negative experiences. Example: The blacksmith that buys your looted equipment regularly.
+0 Just Met: No relationship whatsoever. Example: A guard at a castle or a traveler on a road.
+2 Acquaintance (Negative): Someone you have met several times with no particularly positive experiences. Example: A town guard that has arrested you for drunkenness once or twice.
+5 Enemy: Someone on an opposed team, with whom you have no personal relationship. Example: A cleric of a philosophically-opposed religion or an orc bandit who is robbing you.
+7 Personal Foe: Someone with whom you have a regularly antagonistic personal relationship. Example: An evil warlord whom you are attempting to thwart, or a bounty hunter who is tracking you down for your crimes.
+10 Nemesis: Someone who has sworn to do you, personally, harm. Example: The brother of a man you murdered in cold blood.
Risk vs. Reward Judgement:
-10 Fantastic: The reward for accepting the deal is very worthwhile, and the risk is either acceptable or extremely unlikely. The best-case scenario is a virtual guarantee. Example: An offer to pay a lot of gold for something of no value to the subject, such as information that is not a secret.
-5 Favorable: The reward is good, and the risk is tolerable. If all goes according to plan, the deal will end up benefiting the subject. Example: A request to aid the party in battle against a weak goblin tribe in return for a cut of the money and first pick of the magic items.
+0 Even: The reward and risk are more or less even, or the deal involves neither reward nor risk. Example: A request for directions to someplace that is not a secret.
+5 Unfavorable: The reward is not enough compared to the risk involved; even if all goes according to plan, chances are it will end up badly for the subject. Example: A request to free a prisoner the subject is guarding (for which he or she will probably be fired) in return for a small amount of money.
+10 Horrible: There is no conceivable way the proposed plan could end up with the subject ahead, or the worst-case scenario is guaranteed to occur. Example: A offer to trade a bit of dirty string for a castle. [/sblock]
I have used and will continue to use Rich Burlew's method. It looks like a lot, but it is easy to remember after using it a couple times. Plus, the two factors it takes into account, relationship and risk/reward, really help me analyze the situation quickly and give my players the most accurate semi-realistic option possible.
This is the end. You can go no further.
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