Which PHB2 classes do you not find interesting

[Nahat Anoj]

I think the real question is: do they outshine the PHB classes, and if so by how much?

In general, I think the PH 2 classes are definitely more polished and coherently designed than the PH 1 classes. PH 2 classes tend to have just one primary ability score and allow players to choose one of two neat class features based on secondary ability scores. The PH 1 classes that are most comparable to this are the rogue, warlord, wizard, and fighter (in that order, IMO ).

I don't think the PH 2 classes are necessarily more powerful than PH 1 classes, but they do seem more interesting in terms of how they fulfill their roles. The only PH 1 class that seems weaker than its PH 2 counterparts is the wizard, and that's mostly because the wizard at-wills just don't seem to highlight the controller nature of the class as much as invoker and druid at-will powers do.

Perhaps the largest issue for me is that, if the PH 1 classes were designed according to PH 2 principles, the cleric, ranger, warlock, and paladin would all have one primary attack stat. I think the design team saw these warts quite some time ago - every new class since PH 1's release follows PH 2 design principles. Hopefully one of these days we'll see a major 4e update that redesigns these classes according to the PH 2 principles. But, with Wizards' design schedule - Martial Power is out, Arcane Power is imminent, and Divine Power will be out later this year - I don't think this will happen for another couple of years at the soonest, if it ever happens at all.

 

[Kitirat]

The classes at the bottom of my list (that is, the ones I voted for) are the invoker, avenger, and shaman. I don't generally care for the divine power source, although the invoker and avenger both have slightly interesting stuff about them (the invoke that he doesn't pay fealty to one particular god, and the avenger has an interesting/thought provoking mechanic). The shaman is my least favorite for two reasons: 1) It can be an animal or a spirit; an animal spirit is going too far. 2) All the companion does is run around and serve as a focal point for your powers? I didn't like the beastmaster ranger because it looked like the beast was nothing but a flanker, and it would actually attack less than half the time . . . now the shaman's companion is even worse. I don't mind complexity (I actually prefer it), but the fluff of a companion that doesn't do anything is IMO pretty terrible. I might have to reevaluate this after actually reading the book, but that's what I got from the 1-3 preview.

My favorites in order are: Druid, Sorcerer, Warden. The rest I'm mostly impartial about.

~

Voted for the Shaman. If I had realized I could vote for more than one, I'd of also voted for the Invoker.

The shaman is the second most broken class in the game (next to the Battleraging Vigor Fighter: fighting 2 million minions at once since 1st level and still winning!)

The shaman has a 20 range all the time (or better), and can take out entire villages of enemies without even having to blink or be in danger. (You all goto the tavern and I'll take out the village of goblins from here in the trees, see ya around 6pm for drinks?)

Summon Spirt, have it go into the village, kill as many minions as ya can before a non-minion see the spirit and kills it (or better yet, you minor action it away). Wash rinse and repeat till most if not all the village is dead and at worst is cost you a few surges. Via la power! You also now have the super, uber scout which is far better than the ranger's pets.

The Invoker just seems far, far, far to bland. Most of the other classes feel like they have a purpose, like they were designed from a concept. The invoker seems to have been just designed as "we need a divine controller", and never evoled into a full roleplaying concept and is still in the mechanics/board game part of playtest.

 

[Jack99]

They are pretty interesting, aren't they?

I think the real question is: do they outshine the PHB classes, and if so by how much?

Logic and experience would say by quite a bit. Only true playtesting will of course tell us the real answer, but after reading the classes, my gut says they are quite comparable. The difference, if any, is insignificant.

Then again, I could easily have missed something and be totally wrong.

 

[RefinedBean]

Who voted against the Avenger? It's like a vote against FUN!

 

[Negflar2099]

I'm with the OP. There isn't a single class in 4e so far that I don't want to play. I was hesitant with the Invoker and the Warden at first but now that I have a better understanding of those classes I am really excited. Of course all of this is moot since I'm always a DM, never a Player.

 

[hvg3akaek]

I voted for the invoker and Avenger, as neither of them catches my eye. Every other class I am eager to play, especailly the warden!

 

[Xris Robin]

Voted for the Shaman. If I had realized I could vote for more than one, I'd of also voted for the Invoker.

The shaman is the second most broken class in the game (next to the Battleraging Vigor Fighter: fighting 2 million minions at once since 1st level and still winning!)

The shaman has a 20 range all the time (or better), and can take out entire villages of enemies without even having to blink or be in danger. (You all goto the tavern and I'll take out the village of goblins from here in the trees, see ya around 6pm for drinks?)

Summon Spirt, have it go into the village, kill as many minions as ya can before a non-minion see the spirit and kills it (or better yet, you minor action it away). Wash rinse and repeat till most if not all the village is dead and at worst is cost you a few surges. Via la power! You also now have the super, uber scout which is far better than the ranger's pets.

The Invoker just seems far, far, far to bland. Most of the other classes feel like they have a purpose, like they were designed from a concept. The invoker seems to have been just designed as "we need a divine controller", and never evoled into a full roleplaying concept and is still in the mechanics/board game part of playtest.

You missed something important... the Spirit Companion is a Conjuration. It can't leave those 20 squares, nor can it leave line of sight. It also has no vision, so it can't scout at all.

That's like saying Flaming Sphere is the best scout ever. The flavor is that the Companion is... well, a spirit animal. The mechanics don't reflect that though.

 

[gribble]

I voted Druid, Shaman & Barbarian. I actually made up a druid from the preview material to try out, but in the end was a bit "meh" about him and opted for an invoker instead (see below...). I didn't realise until after I voted that was 3 out of the 4 Primal classes I wasn't really interested in... maybe there's something in that?


The characters I would like to try (I'll add them to the list of characters I want to try and haven't, like my dwarven rogue, elf polearm fighter and dragonborn 2W ranger...):

Avenger - one of my first 4e characters was a dragonborn multiclass paladin/rogue (of the Raven Queen). I'd like to re-imagine him as an Avenger, I think it'd work well (maybe not mechanically, because there isn't an obvious Charisma synergy anymore...)

Bard - I really want to try out the uber-multiclassing 4e version of an old school half elf bard - a bit of Fighter (swordmage in this case), a bit of Wizard (or Warlock), etc.

Invoker - I've already tried one from the playtest material (he was a follower of a dualistic pantheon consisting of dark and light brother gods), and I loved the RP potential inherent in that (he called on the dark god to smite enemies with thunder powers and the light god more for protection and radiant powers). Fun character, and I'd like to bring him out of the folder again once the full material is released.

Sorceror - I really want to try out a 4e version of one of my favourite 3e characters - a kobold dragonblood sorceror. Unfortunately the character won't work mechanically very well (he was a total weakling), so we'll have to see.

Warden - I don't know what it is, but there's something about the "form of" daily powers that is really grabbing me. I think a goliath warden would be cool - and I don't even like the 3e goliath race!

 

[ppaladin123]

I am really excited about all the classes (especially the warden, sorcerer and bard) EXCEPT the invoker. It looks like a good, solidly-built class but I don't see anything mechanically or thematically interesting in the concept. Of course my opinion might change once I see it in play.

 

[Jack99]

Voted for the Shaman. If I had realized I could vote for more than one, I'd of also voted for the Invoker.

The shaman is the second most broken class in the game (next to the Battleraging Vigor Fighter: fighting 2 million minions at once since 1st level and still winning!)

The shaman has a 20 range all the time (or better), and can take out entire villages of enemies without even having to blink or be in danger. (You all goto the tavern and I'll take out the village of goblins from here in the trees, see ya around 6pm for drinks?)

Summon Spirt, have it go into the village, kill as many minions as ya can before a non-minion see the spirit and kills it (or better yet, you minor action it away). Wash rinse and repeat till most if not all the village is dead and at worst is cost you a few surges. Via la power! You also now have the super, uber scout which is far better than the ranger's pets.

It's funny that you should post this here. You posted the exact same thing a while ago (when the shaman was just released) and I (and several other) showed you why you were wrong. At least you got the range (more or less) right this time around.

First attempt

Maybe it's time to admit that if the shaman is broken, it's certainly not for the reason you claim he is.

Cheers