Which version of the FR do you prefer, and why?

[Turjan]

Bashing the Forgotten Realms seems to be en vogue, although it might have become a bit old by now . I suppose, everybody is familiar with the reasons, and this shall not be the topic here. One of the criticisms that are regurlarly brought up is that the Realms are too detailed and do not let any creative space whatsoever for the DM. As I am only familiar with the latest incarnation of the setting, here my question to those, who know the older versions of the Realms:

Which version of the Forgotten Realms do you prefer, and why?

Cheers,
Turjan

 

[National Acrobat]

Original

I love the Realms, have all the versions, but since I run a 1st Edition ADnD game, I stick with the original set that came out eons ago for first edition. It is well done, and leaves plenty of room for me to develop and tailor the setting to my needs.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I actually liked the Gold Boxed set. The Grey Box I liked a bit too.

For me, it was the boxed set + "City of Splendors" boxed set + FR16 "The Shining South" + The Forgotten Realms Atlas, I definitely dug, ya dig? I think "Jungles of Chult" came out before the Gold Box, but I loved combining it along with my own version of the Lake of Steam (see, I converted the Slave Lords series to 2E and then set it in the Lake of Steam region), Lapaliiya, and the Shaar. Flavorwise, what I did with it? Yeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaah, I got yer "pulp adventure" right here, buddy. Robert E. Howard and Edgar Rice Burroughs mashed up with the Realmsian version of the infamous Borgia family (transplanted from Amn, as opposed to the Ravenloft version who ruled Borca) ruling the city of Shaarmid. I was a damn proud 18 year old.

Now things are getting more locked down with more detailed regional sourcebooks, more Nimbral than I can stomach, regional feats which preempt my own cultural creations of my favorite regions, tons of metaplot. It's sad for me, because there was less known about the South, about Chult, that I could add just about whatever I wanted there. These days, often, players have expectations of areas, and when they're not that...well, I hate to disappoint.

 

[3catcircus]

For tidbits here and there of the history and background, but with wide-open areas for the DM to fully flesh out? The Grey Box edition.

For really intricate and detailed background, history, and flavor? The 2nd edition supplements.

I don't particularly care for 3.x's well-intentioned but inelegant need to pigeon-hole everything.

For example - used to be that you could simply have someone (an NPC, for example) just "be" a Purple Dragon Knight. With 3.x, now he has to take levels in a prestige class...

I don't like the changes that 3.x have brought to the realms:

The Shadovar reappearing.
The "Tree Cosmology."
The disappearance of many areas from the map or from any mention (Erlkazar, Maztica, Kara-Tur, Zakhara, The Bandit Wastes, Swagdar, The Blade Kingdoms, etc.)
The dungeon-punk-ization of demi-humans.
The emphasis on crunch vs. fluff in the various publications (we'll never see another "Volo's Guide to..." or "Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog" get published.)

Let me summarize as follows: When I am working on a campaign scenario, I look at 3.x for the rules and 1st/2nd to find out who lives there, the political atmosphere, etc.

 

[rounser]

more Nimbral than I can stomach

Eh? Where?

 

[kuje31]

Eh? Where?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl

 

[demiurge1138]

I don't particularly care for 3.x's well-intentioned but inelegant need to pigeon-hole everything.

For example - used to be that you could simply have someone (an NPC, for example) just "be" a Purple Dragon Knight. With 3.x, now he has to take levels in a prestige class...

Now, now, not all of the Purple Dragon Knights (the organization) are actually purple dragon knights (the prestige class). I'd use the PrC solely for commanders and otherwise elite PDKs.

But I agree that the tree cosmology sucks.

Demiurge out.

 

[teitan]

I used to prefer the Ol' Grey Box, loved it and coupled with the FR series of sourcebooks it was a great setting without too much twinkiness. The novels weren't so intrusive that they couldn't be ignored and some of the more harrowing aspects of the world hadn't been introduced. The OGB was kind of like Greyhawk but better. The different regions were more clearly seperate and better detailed, the deities seemed cooler and the world just seemed more ripe for adventure whereas Greyhawk (at the time I started playing) really began to develop a political bent. The Forgotten Realms just seemed to be ready for any kind of adventure. Of course, these were the impression of a 14 year old just learning to play the game and I hadn't really gotten to see the cooler Greyhawk stuff. Dragonlance was my preferred setting at that time though.

In 2e... man we played in the Realms using the OGB but eventually 2e got unwieldy. The FR stuff got more and more over the top with the uber-mensch's and general levels of magic got sick. I am not a low magic kind of player, not a high magic either, I just preferred the general levels of magic that the DMG etc suggested. The sourcebooks were all over the place references wise and I was royally TICKED that the gold box and later reprints didn't include the spheres of the priestly types of different deities, an element of AD&D 2e that was created with the Realms in mind and they totally ignore it and direct you to look in a sourcebook that was OOP!!!!! WTF. Make it a part of your core product people!

Now with 3e... man is it cool. A lot of the elements of the 2e version that I didn't like are either de-emphasized, made moot or discarded altogether. The world became playable again without novel support and the general feel of the OGB has been retained and the FR series kind of lives on in the sourcebooks for the regions. Prestige classes seem to really bring membership in the various orgs like the Purple Dragons and War Wizards to bear as more than lip service and at the same time make it something you have to work towards instead of taking a kit at first level. The 3e cleric kind of makes it feel like you are an acolyte learning the ropes and then taking a Prestige Class for the Deity means you are a true priest of that god. You earned it as opposed to it being handed to you. As far as the world information we get a geography every bit as flavourful as the 1e OGB but also adds material and gives a lot of great hints about the regions as far as adventuring goes. ABout the only complaint I have is that they don't have many city maps in the book. I want more city maps to use.

Overall, I really like 3e FRCS. I have a lot invested in 3e material for FR and no matter how much I love Eberron I think that the Forgotten Realms is the only place I care to adventure at this time. Were I to run any other edition FR it would be the 2e rules with the OGB and FR series alongside the FRA. I didn't like the addition of Kara Tur, Maztica, Zakhara etc. to the Realms, it was unnecessary and all those settings deserves to stand on their own. At the rate they were going I was surprised we didn't find out that one of those uncharted continents was Mystara and the other Greyhawk. I hope to never see these return as 3e FR material, except maybe Kara Tur. Leave the rest alone.

Jason

 

[Turjan]

I love the Realms, have all the versions, but since I run a 1st Edition ADnD game, I stick with the original set that came out eons ago for first edition. It is well done, and leaves plenty of room for me to develop and tailor the setting to my needs.

I really don't have a clue about this version. Without going into too much detail, what are the main differences? I hope this is not asked too much .



Maybe I should explain my sudden interest: In the course of the current Scarred Lands rumour debate, someone dropped a link to some old interview with Ed Greenwood, and there he was asked how his own FR (i.e., his campaign at home) looked like, and I found the answers quite interesting:

"Specifically, my Moonshae Isles were a lot more like the real-world Orkneys and Hebrides, or LeGuin's Earthsea: lots of little islands of fisher-folk (rather than Doug's Celtic continent), the Whamite Isles (of THE GREAT KHAN GAME game) were airlifted into the Realms, Bob Salvatore peeked over The Spine of the World to see what was there and add Icewind Dale, and my glaciers were rolled back to insert Vaasa, Damara, and the Bloodstone lands.

TSR bought the Realms so as to provide a setting for the 2nd Edition game, and for those purposes it makes perfect sense to provide real-world-equivalent 'steppes,' Mayan, Oriental, Arabic, and Celtic settings, but my own personal tastes run to 'no recognizable real-world equivalents' in my own Realms... because players tend to make mistaken assumptions (rather than roleplaying to the hilt) based on their understandings of real-world feudalism, or gunpowder, or stirrups, or Roman galleys, or whatever, if things are "too close." So I would not have flavored areas of the Realms in the same way published Realmslore has."

On the "Time of Troubles":

"Realms-Altering Events, now....well, in the 'home' Realms campaign, the Time of Troubles hasn't happened yet. Not because of my likes or dislikes, but because of my players.

Simply put, the task of the DM is to entertain his or her players, giving them an entertaining and worthwhile return on the hours they spend sitting playing with him or her. To make any roleplaying game the most fun for the most participants, I let everyone vote on really major stuff (like 1st to 2nd Edition, new rules inclusions, Time of Troubles, etc.) after everyone's had a chance to thoroughly discuss it and think it through.

My players voted no, so no it is."

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

Greyhawk a part of Forgotten Realms? Now that would cause some serious internet flame wars.

Anyway, its your world, do what you want with it, nobody's putting a gun to your head and telling you how to run your Forgotten Realms campaign.


Scott