Which would you rather have in your party?

[mmu1]

Ok, I think a distinction needs to be made:

If I were another player in your game, I'd rather have the extra cleric, even if there was one already around - from a party POV, it's kind of a non-brainer, unless you already have two or three of those lying around.

On the other hand, I'd choose to play the ECL 14 half-celestial rather than a 10th level character with an 8th level cohort in a heartbeat, if anyone was willing to give me a deal as sweet as this - it might not be as powerful as having your very own cleric, but it gives you a ton of great abilities, has amazing synergy with a Paladin, and you don't need to worry about taking care of a lower-level NPC...

Although personally I don't think I could actually take an ECL+4 template in exchange for one feat and still respect myself in the morning. Unless this is a game in which everyone has a cohort, and by taking the template I was committing myself never to take Leadership...

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I'd prefer the half-celestial Paladin.

We've got plenty of characters in our group already,
adding two, with that player taking up twice as much
game time and spotlight time, would be worse than one.

Plus, I've found that I tend to forget about my cohorts in combat. "Oh, crap, I forgot to roll initiative for Yevelindra. Darn."

This makes it a bit more fun (SR? Check. DR? Check. More Cha for Divine Grace? Check.) for you to play, and is easier than having to play the cleric. I'd go for the half-celestial paladin, though I'm wondering how on earth you'll get the DM to agree...

Brad

 

[Lord Pendragon]

for you to play, and is easier than having to play the cleric. I'd go for the half-celestial paladin, though I'm wondering how on earth you'll get the DM to agree...

Well, you'll note that the vote still stands at 55 to 4 in favor of the paladin and cleric. That seems to suggest pretty strongly that the cohort is a more powerful choice than the template. And if the template is the weaker choice, it's not a balance issue. Or at least less of a balance issue than plain old Leadership.

If you add to that the fact that it may be more fun for me to play and, as Geoff points out there's no cohort to steal the limelight from the other players, it doesn't seem like that hard a sell, does it?

I brought the subject up to my DM tonight, and also pointed him to this thread to read all the discussion on it, positive and negative. Now the ball's in his court, so we'll see what happens. If he does allow it, I'll be able to post in a few months to say whether it truly worked fine, or was unbalanced as the Souljourner suspects.

 

[Thanee]

First, cohorts take a share of the gold and experience. This is one major disadvantage of having cohorts. What would you do about that difference?

Experience points for cohorts are "free" in 3.5, they are just generated out of nowhere and not deducted from the party total.

Thirdly, i don't really know how the cohort system works very well, so maybe somebody else could flesh this out, but aren't there a lot of other small issues that arise from having a cohort? It seems that unless you make them without personalities there is at least some potential for conflict or confusion.

Well, of course, the cohort is not a 100% loyal follower who does everything you say. It's a character of its own and while being friendly, loyal and helpful does have an own mind. Also the DM is meant to fill in the details of the cohort, so no "precisely covering your weaknesses" normally.

Besides you shouldn't know exactly what the cohort is capable of, similar to an NPC, that joins the party. Sure, a bit more than that, it's a follower after all, but not everything.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Well, you'll note that the vote still stands at 55 to 4 in favor of the paladin and cleric. That seems to suggest pretty strongly that the cohort is a more powerful choice than the template. And if the template is the weaker choice, it's not a balance issue. Or at least less of a balance issue than plain old Leadership.

Well, the template makes your character 4 levels higher, effectively.

Leadership makes your party stronger, not your character.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Plane Sailing]

First, cohorts take a share of the gold and experience. This is one major disadvantage of having cohorts. What would you do about that difference?

Changed in 3.5e - they don't take a share of the xps any more (which is nice - you don't get penalised xp for someone elses feat choice )

A sorcerer PC of mine has a ranger cohort (bodyguard) and as a player I love it - it means if my primary character goes down or doesn't really have anything to do in a particular situation I've still got someone to play with! Furthermore, should the sorcerer bite the big one I could always use the cohort as my new PC (taking advantage of the existing background he has with the party).

Cohorts are cool and useful.

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Interesting to see in Piratecats game how Nolin the bard gets leadership and his first cohort is Malachite the paladin/hunter of the dead. Who becomes a PC. So he eventually gets replaced by a new cohort - Agar the diviner/alienist. Who becomes a PC. I don't know whether Nolin stopped attracting cohorts while deep in the underdark, but they've been a great way of allowing for "guest" players and then new players in a group.

Cheers

 

[Thanee]

...if my primary character goes down... or ...should the sorcerer bite the big one...

You are maybe a little pessimistic about your sorcerer?

But yeah, that would be a quick way to have another character available.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mmu1]

Well, you'll note that the vote still stands at 55 to 4 in favor of the paladin and cleric. That seems to suggest pretty strongly that the cohort is a more powerful choice than the template. And if the template is the weaker choice, it's not a balance issue. Or at least less of a balance issue than plain old Leadership.

That doesn't really prove that getting the template for free is ok, just that there's potentially a huge balance issue with Leadership. (which is why it's in the DMG, with big "DM's discretion" signs all over it.)

If everyone else in your party had Leadership and a cohort, but you were going to take the template instead, I could see how that might be balanced, but in a standard game, getting +4 ECL for the price of one feat just doesn't wash.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Like posting twice is worse than once.

Good point.

I said cleric and paladin, for a walking band-aid is always welcome (if only he'll memorize those spells you don't want to get yourself, like restoration and the like)