Whiney players....

[Tewligan]

The time I was DM and someone tried this, I pulled him aside immediately after a temper tantrum (involving not being able to do full damage with his spells to a creature that had immunity to certain types of attacks, and I was nerfing his character), and explained if he has a problem to take it up with me outside the game. He grumbled, but agreed. Two hours later, he threw a hissy fit again about failing a save where he missed it by 1, and screamed it wasn't fair, I was a "s***ty" DM for making the encouter too hard, threw some dice, blah blah blah. The other players got visibly uncomfortable, and one of them them gave me the finger across the throat sign. I stopped the game, got up, went over to him and told him to leave and never come back. He proceeded to throw another tempter tantrum, kicked doors, etc on his way out- good riddance. My gaming time is too precious to spend it coddling immature jerks like that. And remember, no gaming is better than horrendously bad gaming like that.

Dear God, how old was that guy? I cannot STAND adults who throw tantrums - it's actually embarrassing even to be around people like that. They promptly get made fun of to their face.

 

[Gothmog]

Dear God, how old was that guy? I cannot STAND adults who throw tantrums - it's actually embarrassing even to be around people like that. They promptly get made fun of to their face.

I think this guy was 24. It happened while I was in grad school about a year after I moved to Columbia, MO. This guy tried to affect this Dennis Leary "too cool for words" thing (which is supremely annoying in and of itself), but if something didn't go his way, he also liked making himself out to be the victim- and before this incident he regaled us with several stories of how crappy the world was and how poorly things went for him. The group was playing 2e AD&D, and the other guys in the group were friends I'd made when I moved up there. One of the guys asked if this guy could play "since he hasn't gotten to play in a long time." Gee, I wonder why? That was his first and only time to play with the group- and the other players all agreed he'd never be allowed back.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Thats a much better way of handling it, but it still doesn't really address the core problem with this player being unhappy, but it could bridge into a useful discussion. However, grabbing party members and leaving via teleport without even discussing it with the rest of the party could also be a problem- namely that the player made a decision and enforced it on everybody else.

Well, if the situation doesn't allow for an in-character discussion of the proper tactics, you certainly can't have an OOC discussion at that time. As to "enforcing" a decision on anybody else, Teleport is willing subjects only. Say "I'm leaving!" and cast Teleport, DM asks other players "Are you willing subjects, yes or no, right now" and then have the in-character discussion afterwards.

 

[JDJblatherings]

So why doesn't the whiner simply have his PC flee? Don't want to fight the battle... well don't fight the battle.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

So why doesn't the whiner simply have his PC flee? Don't want to fight the battle... well don't fight the battle.

From the OP: "But of course the other PC's are going forward and fighting the battle so he reluctantly goes along"

What would have happened if the PC had just fled? Would the rest of the party have died? In which case the other players would chew him out for getting them killed, and he could argue that he was right to flee. Would the party have won? In which case the player sees that his PC's involvement was irrelevant and unnecessary, and likely suspects the DM of fudging things.

Some styles of D&D require a great deal of metagaming. In many campaigns, players are supposed to make decisions that their characters would not, in order to make sure that the DM's preparation isn't wasted or the other players' fun isn't ruined. I can certainly see a player resenting being forced (or strongly encouraged) to metagame.

It's possible that within a group one player could take the tack "We'll look at risks based on what our PCs know and act accordingly," while another takes the position "We're the main characters and we're supposed to win." Neither position is really "wrong," but they're very different gaming styles. And it's possible that some DMs could take the position "How can they even consider that I would throw them into a fight they couldn't win" and others ask "Why do they always refuse to even consider retreating when clearly outmatched?"

 

[Raven Crowking]

So you think a cr 20 encounter is appropriate for a 10th lvl party?

Have you read the encounter guidelines in the DMG? Those guidelines certainly seem to indicate that when I read them (although I agree that the DMG advice isn't aways right, especially where higher-level play is concerned).

He mentions a series of battles any one of which probably should have been a TPK. Then a dungeon that renders the players character almost completely useless.

Iron golems are not immune to divination spells. They are not immune to secondary effects, such as being under a ceiling targetted by a spell. Not being able to directly target an opponent shouldn't make a character "almost completely useless".

It's a D&D game, the quality of the DMing has a great deal to do with how much fun a campaign is.

Very true.

But it is also true that an otherwise great DM can be saddled with a lousy player, and part of the buck stopping with the DM is that the DM sometimes has to say "Sorry, but you need to find another game."

To the OP:

Here is my advice:

(1) Talk to the other players, to see if they are having the same problems, but just haven't said anything to you. Maybe your encounters are too tough, or you are forcing the PCs to take actions they're not comfortable with taking. But maybe not. Your other players will know. If so, you need to examine your own DMing style. If not, go to (2), below.

(2) Take the player aside and suggest that if he is not having fun in your game, he might prefer to do something else, as his constant complaining is damaging to the game. If he is having fun, on the other hand, he can submit something constructive. For example, the next time he says his character would just walk away from a fight, tell him that's okay....he can walk away from the fight. If this solves the problem, rock on. If not, got to (3), below.

(3) Take the player aside and say, "Sorry, but you need to find another game." And mean what you say.

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Here is another thing to consider:

Let us say that every charge levelled against the OP is correct, and he made every possible DMing mistake anyone has thus far suggested he might make. If you are invited to that game, and everyone else is having fun, IMHO you should still suck it up buttercup, have a private chat with the DM afterward, then decide to either remain in the game (knowing what it is) or quit that game (because you don't like what it is).

The player behaviour described in the OP is never useful, whether it is right or wrong.

IMHO, of course.

YMMV.


RC

 

[jdrakeh]

IMHO you should still suck it up buttercup, have a private chat with the DM afterward, then decide to either remain in the game (knowing what it is) or quit that game (because you don't like what it is).

As has already been suggested by several posters, simply quitting and finding another game that is enjoyable for the 'whiner' seems like the best option, here.

 

[EvilMountainDew]

I agree with the OP.

I'd consider telling wrong CRs to the player, hiding the true numbers, just to mess with him. It'd be entertaining to say in passing, "I just wrote up a sweet super-beefy Barbarian, CR 21." And then throw them up against a couple barbarians. See if he starts bitching.

Then, of course when the truth comes out, tell him to chill the hell out.

 

[Greylock]

Man, what this thread really, really needs at this point is for the so-called "whiny player" to sign up, read the whole proceedings, and then in classic fashion, turn the whole thread on it's nose by posting HIS version of the tale.

All I can do is hope...