Whiney players....

[jdrakeh]

I did indeed read his post, and I did indeed feel that the whining in the example cited was warranted.

Ditto. I think that most of the responders read it, as they cited specific portions of it in their replies or alluded to very specific things cited therein. It seems to be a case of "disagrees with what the OP posted" not "didn't read what the OP posted"

 

[TheAuldGrump]

And we come full circle, whining, being childish, being rude are NEVER justified... well maybe if he is 12, but no not even then really.

Having an issue / problem / disagreement with the scenario and trying to resolve it to ones own satisfaction is acceptable, being a whiney brat is not... especially if he is not 12.

And being a bad DM is? - that is the point of contention here - the scenario cited was built to make the PCs useless. Whee, fun. Let's play Scrabble instead. Call us when you finish the dice.

If this is what the bulk of the campaign is like I would uninvite the DM - regardless of whether the whiny player was gotten rid of as well. If the DM wants the battle to be between uberpowerful NPCs then why bother having the players at all?

It is possible to have both a bad DM and a bad player in the same game. But the evidence shown so far is much stronger that the DM is a core problem, and by his own example. We have not heard from the player, and we likely never will. Without his input all we can go by is the example given - which is not that of great DMing.

My reaction is fairly strong because I have been in games where the DM behaved in a similar fashion - and we did indeed give him the boot. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just the DM.

The Auld Grump

 

[cougent]

And being a bad DM is? - that is the point of contention here - the scenario cited was built to make the PCs useless. Whee, fun. Let's play Scrabble instead. Call us when you finish the dice.

If this is what the bulk of the campaign is like I would uninvite the DM - regardless of whether the whiny player was gotten rid of as well. If the DM wants the battle to be between uberpowerful NPCs then why bother having the players at all?

It is possible to have both a bad DM and a bad player in the same game. But the evidence shown so far is much stronger that the DM is a core problem, and by his own example. We have not heard from the player, and we likely never will. Without his input all we can go by is the example given - which is not that of great DMing.

My reaction is fairly strong because I have been in games where the DM behaved in a similar fashion - and we did indeed give him the boot. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just the DM.

The Auld Grump

I intentionally stayed out of the "Bad DM" debate, because I don't feel that's my place to say. IMO, his example is horrible, but that is a sidebar, not the point.

It is quite possible to have both be wrong, but it just seems silly that when someone posts a question and then gives a bad example that most everyone ignores the question and lambastes the guy for his example. "Here is how to deal with your whiney player, you suck as a DM.", I just don't see that as helpful or staying on topic.

 

[prosfilaes]

It is quite possible to have both be wrong, but it just seems silly that when someone posts a question and then gives a bad example that most everyone ignores the question and lambastes the guy for his example. "Here is how to deal with your whiney player, you suck as a DM.", I just don't see that as helpful or staying on topic.

If the person is whining because the game sucks, part of the solution is going to be fixing the game. That's helpful and on topic. Also, when giving advice, you always have to remember there's two sides to an issue, and you're getting one side. Frequently the only way to understand why the defendant is acting the way they are is by figuring out what the plaintiff doesn't understand or isn't saying.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I intentionally stayed out of the "Bad DM" debate, because I don't feel that's my place to say. IMO, his example is horrible, but that is a sidebar, not the point.

It is quite possible to have both be wrong, but it just seems silly that when someone posts a question and then gives a bad example that most everyone ignores the question and lambastes the guy for his example. "Here is how to deal with your whiney player, you suck as a DM.", I just don't see that as helpful or staying on topic.

Part of the solution is to fix the game. Given the description I would say that is the biggest piece of the solution. Get rid of legitimate reasons to whine before complaining about the player whining.

If you go out of your way to give players something to whine about then you will have whiny players. Which, by his own description, is what the OP did.

The Auld Grump

 

[Slaygrim]

And being a bad DM is? - that is the point of contention here - the scenario cited was built to make the PCs useless. Whee, fun. Let's play Scrabble instead. Call us when you finish the dice.

Man, my patience has run out. I am very sick of the idiots here painting straw men arguments. The players were NOT in a situation where they were useless. You're either making up stuff because you don't have a point or you are completely ignorant of what went on despite my going into better detail explaining everything.

If this is what the bulk of the campaign is like I would uninvite the DM - regardless of whether the whiny player was gotten rid of as well. If the DM wants the battle to be between uberpowerful NPCs then why bother having the players at all?

It wasn't like that. Again, you are making up. The PC's wiped the floor with that battle in 2 rounds. The NPC managed to take out the opposing sorcerer, but the wizard, the beholder, the guardian all fell to the PC's. Get your facts straight. I am sick of people on here not listening.

It is possible to have both a bad DM and a bad player in the same game. But the evidence shown so far is much stronger that the DM is a core problem, and by his own example. We have not heard from the player, and we likely never will. Without his input all we can go by is the example given - which is not that of great DMing.

Kiss my ass.

My reaction is fairly strong because I have been in games where the DM behaved in a similar fashion - and we did indeed give him the boot. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just the DM.

The Auld Grump

I am not that DM so get off my ass. I have cited numerous times where I explained everything further, and each of your assessments here have been wrong.

 

[Slaygrim]

If the person is whining because the game sucks, part of the solution is going to be fixing the game. That's helpful and on topic.

Not when I have repeated MULTIPLE TIMES that NONE of the other players had a problem. I have repeated MULTIPLE TIMES that this player has a problem EVERYTIME the group games and the entire group is SICK of his whining.

But no, it's 100% my fault.

 

[shilsen]

Not when I have repeated MULTIPLE TIMES that NONE of the other players had a problem. I have repeated MULTIPLE TIMES that this player has a problem EVERYTIME the group games and the entire group is SICK of his whining.

But no, it's 100% my fault.

I have a question for you, because I'm genuinely curious - why do you keep posting on this thread if it aggravates you so much? After all, if a bunch of random strangers on the internet tell you that you're a bad DM, why do you care and why does it upset you so?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Not when I have repeated MULTIPLE TIMES that NONE of the other players had a problem. I have repeated MULTIPLE TIMES that this player has a problem EVERYTIME the group games and the entire group is SICK of his whining.

But no, it's 100% my fault.

Or maybe he was the only one willing to say that there was a problem.

If faced with an opponant or battle that appears too tough for him, he will whine saying it's too strong of a battle and that there is no way his character would fight this battle. Such as recently, the party is 4 10th level characters and they had to battle a 19th level wizard, a 16th level sorcerer, a 15th level wizard, a beholder, and a runic guardian. Of course this battle does appear to be too powerful, the gaming group completely forgot (I have no idea how) that the previous adventure the PC's learned that the 15th level wizard was actually a spy out to stop this 19th level wizards plot. So the entire time before the battle, all I hear is whining. "Oh this is too powerful, we are out of our leagues. My character wouldn't fight this, he'd just walk away." and all of this junk. But of course the other PC's are going forward and fighting the battle so he reluctantly goes along.

Because, frankly, there is a problem.
100% your fault, maybe not. But are you responsible, in major part? Most decidedly, yes.

The Auld Grump

 

[Umbran]

Kiss my ass.

Ah, time for a vacation.

Anyone else care to be uncivil, vacations can be arranged for you, too. This sort of behavior is unacceptable on these boards.