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Whip Questions

Kae'Yoss

First Post
Li Shenron said:
A good consideration, although I kindly disagree. Not very far from truth in fact: since you can't damage targets with at least +1 armor (or +3 natural armor), you don't take into account someone's armor, although it's a bit of a joke :p
Effectively, you're probably having a hard time hurting an armored NPC with a whip, and it sound quite realistic.

Most of the time you'll make touch attacks (trip) or opposed attack rolls (disarm) anyway, both disregarding armor. I don't think that many use the whip to deal damage, at least not in combat (in the situations where you use the whip to hurt people, they don't wear armor - or other clothes.....)
 

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android

First Post
Well, that's what the Whip Dagger is for. Nice and crunchy, from Sword and Fist. It's basically a whip with a dagger on the end and sharp bits along it's length so that it does real damage (1d6) and affects armored opponents.

Even more crunchy is the Mighty Whip Dagger. Does the same thing as a might bow.. allows you to add a certain amount of strength to your damage.
 

Dr. NRG

First Post
I haven't ever used a whip, or any reasonable fascimile (except kelp, with which I accidentally whipped my own arse, but I digress).

I'd be interested in hearing from Pax or others who've actually used a real whip on the topic of whip daggers. It seems, from a naive point of view, that these things are pretty far fetched. As a history buff, I've never seen one of these things in a museum, for example.

I'm not trying to invalidate the weapon, it's obviously there for uniqueness and flavor (like the two-ended sword/flail/axe/what have you).

Anyhow, comments from those who "whip it good"?

NRG
 

melkoriii

First Post
Crothian said:
Also, there is not one shread of evidence in any book that the whip acts like ranged weapons for some things, and melee weapons for others. If the whip functioned like that in any way, there would be a statement in the rules books about it. It's pretty black and white. Whip = ranged weapon, point blank sot is for ranged weapons; there fore whip and point blank shot can be used together.

Actually there is evidence that it acts like a melee weapon in some instances. Note the bold parts.

From SRD

Whip: The whip deals sub dual damage. It deals no damage to any creature with even a +1 armor bonus or at least a +3 natural armor bonus. Although the whip is kept in hand, treat it as a projectile weapon with a maximum range of 15 feet and no range penalties.
Because the whip can wrap around an enemy's leg or other limb, trip attacks can be made with it. If a character is tripped during the trip attempt, the whip can be dropped to avoid being tripped.
When using a whip, add a +2 bonus on the opposed attack roll when attempting to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the character fails to disarm the opponent).


Disarm(4) [Varies][AoO: Yes]
Description: The combatant and an adjacent target make opposed attack rolls with the their respective weapons. If the weapons are different sizes, the opponent with the larger weapon gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. If the target is using a weapon in two hands, he gets an additional +4 bonus. If the combatant beats the target, the target is disarmed. If a combatant attempted the disarm action unarmed, the combatant now has the weapon. Otherwise, it drops to the ground at the target's feet. If the combatant fails, then the target may make an attempt to disarm the combatant as an immediate, free action.
Note: A target wearing spiked gauntlets can't be relieved of the gauntlets by a disarm action. A target using a weapon attached to a locked gauntlet gets a +10 bonus to any disarm attempt made by an opponent.
This action substitutes for a melee attack, not an action. As melee attacks, it can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or even as an attack of opportunity.

Trip an opponent [Varies][AoO: No]
A combatant can try to trip an opponent as a melee attack. A combatant can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than a combatant, the same size, or smaller.
Making a Trip Attack: Make a melee attack as a melee touch attack. If the attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender's Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium-size or a -4 penalty for every size category he is smaller. The defender gets a +4 stability bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If a combatant win, a combatant trip the defender. If a combatant lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by a combatant's Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip a combatant.
A tripped combatant is prone. Standing up from prone is a move-equivalent action.
A combatant may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may use his Ride skill in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If a combatant succeed, a combatant pull the rider from his mount.
This attack form substitutes for a melee attack, not an action. As a melee attack, it can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or even as an attack of opportunity.

You can not make Disarm or Trip attacks with a Ranged weapon yet you can with a Whip.
 
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Kae'Yoss

First Post
You can with a whip, and that's because it's stated in its description.

It's like the rapier: it says there that you can finess it, although its no light weapon for your average elf (or human). It doesn't mean it actually is a light weapon, only that it can do something that cannot be done with a one-handed weapon....
 

Pax

Banned
Banned
Dr. NRG said:
I haven't ever used a whip, or any reasonable fascimile (except kelp, with which I accidentally whipped my own arse, but I digress).

I'd be interested in hearing from Pax or others who've actually used a real whip on the topic of whip daggers. It seems, from a naive point of view, that these things are pretty far fetched. As a history buff, I've never seen one of these things in a museum, for example.

First a caveat: I've only ever -played- with a real whip, I won't claim any degree of expertise. Anecdotal as it is, however ... my firsthand experience with the whip DOES support it's being classed as a ranged weapon.

Anyway. As presented, IMO, the "whip dagger" is a pure-Fantasy-setting farce. Mind you ... a barbed whip, with a (perhaps also barbed) end-weight, would, IMO, indeed do non-subdual damage. Perhaps 1d3 to 1d4 of it (and IMC, I am lowering the Whip and Whip-Dagger damage ratings ... flat 1hp subdual for normal whips, and 1d4 or 1d4-1 normal damage for Whip-daggers ...).

I also plan to try figure out how to work in different SIZES of whips (not all whips hould be fifteen-foot-reach monstrousities; as whips go that's a HUGE bugger ...!!), with the differences being more than cosmetics and prices ...

I'm not trying to invalidate the weapon, it's obviously there for uniqueness and flavor (like the two-ended sword/flail/axe/what have you).

Exactly. IRL,I don't think anyone could get a whip-dagger to work properly. But in a fantasy game with elves, wizards, kobolds, adn the like ... it's just fine with me.
 
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Malin Genie

First Post
Li Shenron said:
Furthermore, in few occasions you may notice that is it not considered THROWN: you don't get Str bonus to damage (you get a penalty however, and I think there are "mighty" whips on some splatbooks) and Far Shot increases the range by 50% only.

Actually you are wrong about the Strength penalty. A Strength penalty to damage applies to thrown weapons, bows and slings, but not other projectile weapons like whips and crossbows.

PHB p8:

You apply your Strength modifier to
* Melee attack rolls
* Damge rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the Strength nodifier, while two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength modifier. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow or a sling.)


That's why the whip dagger is such a great weapon for low Str, high Dex characters.
 


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