whirlwind attack: one roll or multiple rolls

[geosapient]

Even better.

If I were a large creature wielding a spiked chain making a whirlwind attack against all opponents surrounding me (assuming all squares out 6 from myself) are occupied with enemies how many attacks am I going to make?

Edit: Mileage may vary. Some feel that a spiked chain wielded by a large creature can affect the 10' square others don't.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The generally accepted interpretation is an attack roll for each target.

Well, yeah, but the argument is over whether 'an attack roll for each target' means 'an attack roll, which is applied to each target in turn', or 'an attack roll applied to a target; repeat for the number of targets'.

It's undisputed that 'one melee attack against each opponent' means an attack roll for each target; what's in dispute is how many attack rolls that makes

-Hyp.

 

[Dross]

I would have thought that the critical mechanic for this would be like multi-shot (can't remember if this is the actual feat name). You use one attack roll for every arrow that's fired and if the roll is critical then only the first arrow does critical damage.

The only real difference is that now you're hitting (or missing) multiple targets so the first one in the attack should be designated.

You mean Manyshot: From my version of the SRD
Benefit: As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. Both arrows use the same attack roll (with a -4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special).
For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one additional arrow to this attack, to a maximum of four arrows at a base attack bonus of +16. However, each arrow after the second adds a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total penalty of -6 for three arrows and -8 for four).
Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately against each arrow fired.
Special: Regardless of the number of arrows you fire, you apply precision-based damage only once. If you score a critical hit, only the first arrow fired deals critical damage; all others deal regular damage.

The bolded part talk about rolling once and precision damage. Whirlwind Attack does not have these notes.

5 foes = 5 attack rolls.

 

[geosapient]

I understand that manyshot (thanks) is clearly stated as to the attack and amount of arrows being fired and the precision damage being applied on the first arrow only (unless the improved version is taken).

The problem seems to be that whirlwind attack isn't as clearly stated or no one would be confused on it, no one would handle it differently (based on their interpretation) and this question wouldn't have been asked.

I mentioned how I thought that the critical mechanics would be handled like the manyshot feat since we ran whirlwind as one attack with multiple damages (similar to the way manyshot works). The issue never came up during play since whirlwind attack didn't get used very often.

Now, to answer my last post (assuming that my attack range is correct [I suck at these range things] and I remember the feat correctly) that would be 76 potential opponents (60 if you use the by the book interpretation that Hypersmurf presented in a recent enlarged weapon[?] thread) who could be attacked.

That's 76 attack rolls and potentially 76 damage rolls.

 

[Jhaelen]

I understand that manyshot (thanks) is clearly stated as to the attack and amount of arrows being fired and the precision damage being applied on the first arrow only (unless the improved version is taken).

The problem seems to be that whirlwind attack isn't as clearly stated or no one would be confused on it, no one would handle it differently (based on their interpretation) and this question wouldn't have been asked.

There's an easy explanation:
Manyshot includes the information because it represents a deviation from the norm. Whirlwind attack doesn't because there's no deviation from the norm, thus 1 attack = 1 attack roll (even if it's 76 attacks...).

 

[Rvdvelden]

As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet.

(Bold added)

I think that this is the clear difference between whirlwind attack and manyshot. Multiple targets vs. single target = multiple attack rolls vs. single attack roll.

 

[geosapient]

There's an easy explanation:
Manyshot includes the information because it represents a deviation from the norm. Whirlwind attack doesn't because there's no deviation from the norm, thus 1 attack = 1 attack roll (even if it's 76 attacks...).

I think manyshot includes the information so that people didn't misinterpret how it worked. If it wouldn't have stated that it was one roll for every arrow then people might think that since four arrows are being fired they would roll four times instead of one time for the single string draw.

Whirlwind may state nearby opponents (plural) but it goes on to say an (singular) amazing, spinning attack (singular)

It also states that you give up your regular attacks (plural) for one attack (singular) against nearby opponents (plural).

It's not that I don't see how you (plural) are reading the feat. It's just that I feel the way I read it is more in line with intent.

At any rate it really doesn't matter much to me. I do what works for me and you (pl.) do what works for you (pl.). I'm sure both ways work just fine in most circumstances (adjacent squares) and both have major drawbacks when dealing with reach and size (time consumption or all or nothing).

 

[Hypersmurf]

It also states that you give up your regular attacks (plural) for one attack (singular) against nearby opponents (plural).

No, no.

You give up your regular attacks (plural) for one attack (singular) against each nearby opponent (singular).

Is there a nearby opponent? Make one attack against him.

Repeat for each nearby opponent.

-Hyp.

 

[geosapient]

Right, right... I read it 10 hours ago, went to sleep and posted when I got back to work. My brain was still stuck on the description.

Still, if you roll the die one time for one attack and compare that roll to all opponents then each opponent still gets one attack.

 

[glass]

I think manyshot includes the information so that people didn't misinterpret how it worked. If it wouldn't have stated that it was one roll for every arrow then people might think that since four arrows are being fired they would roll four times instead of one time for the single string draw.

...and they'd be right. It doesn't include that information so people realise that that is how it works. It includes that information because if it didn't, then it really would work differently, IMO.


glass.