Whirlwind Attack Questions

[HoboGod]

I ask these questions because I'm making a pouncing whirlwind fighter and I want to know the full extent of my options.

1) When using Whirlwind Attack, does one roll a single attack which hits multiple targets or a series of attacks for each target? If a series of attacks, can a fighter mix and match the type of melee attacks he uses on the same round, such as sundering every opponent who holds a weapon, tripping everyone who holds no weapon, and attacking everyone who has fallen prone?

2) If a fighter has Improved Trip and trips multiple foes with his Whirlwind Attack, does the fighter receive an immediate follow-up attack as per the feat or is this forfeited by using whirlwind?

3) If a fighter with cleave uses Whirlwind Attack and one enemy dies, does the fighter get to cleave or is cleave considered among the bonus attacks that are forfeited? If able to cleave, does the cleave continue as another whirlwind or does it only hit one person?

 

[DumbPaladin]

The answer to two of your questions are right in the Player's Handbook.

Page 102: "When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the cleave feat or the haste spell)."

 

[FEADIN]

You attack once each target with a separate roll, nothing says you can't mix trip, sunder and even change weapon, the limit is one attack/target.

" When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities. "

 

[akbearfoot]

pounce and whirlwind attack are pretty much impossible to do at the same time, as far as I know. Pounce allows a full attack action when you charge, which is a specific combat action. Whirlwind attack is a feat requiring 1 full round action, which means you can only take a 5-foot step and still use this feat. A full-round action is NOT the same thing as a full attack action, and they are not interchangeable.

That being said, there are a few ways to gain bonus move actions, and or swift action abilities that can grant movement, which would achieve the same objective. Hopefully someone else will be nice and post them.

I personally feel like pounce is broken overpowered and should be banned.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

1. Yes, you can mix attacks just as you could with any full attack.

2. The followup attack probably counts for the "extra attacks" clause, so I don't think so. Which is sad, because even with a trip-focused build, at that point, killing scores weak enemies is probably more efficient than just knocking them prone.

3. No, Cleave would be an extra attack.

 

[frankthedm]

pounce and whirlwind attack are pretty much impossible to do at the same time, as far as I know. Pounce allows a full attack action when you charge, which is a specific combat action. Whirlwind attack is a feat requiring 1 full round action, which means you can only take a 5-foot step and still use this feat. A full-round action is NOT the same thing as a full attack action, and they are not interchangeable.

I'm not so sure about that, but one way it does not work is that "When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities. " So whirlwind shuts itself off when one tries to combine it with pounce. You've charged and are entitled to one attack, then an ability gives you more attacks than one. Try to Whirlwind and those attacks are forfeited.

 

[HoboGod]

Yay! Thanks for the replies.

As for Whirlwind not working with pounce, I'm pretty sure it works together. Pounce grants a full attack when charging (not extra attacks), and a whirlwind attack requires a "full attack action." If whirlwind said it needed a special full-round action, I'd think differently.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I can't really think of many instances where a WWA would be much better than a full attack at the end of a charge anyway, just by the limitations of the charge action. You can't maneuver into the center of a group, you have to do a direct line towards the target. At mid levels when you simply don't have 4 iterative attacks, sure. But hey, if you blew so many feats to get WWA that soon, you deserve some sort of perk...

 

[frankthedm]

I can't really think of many instances where a WWA would be much better than a full attack at the end of a charge anyway, just by the limitations of the charge action.

Depends on a how much the GM uses larger amounts of foes vs fewer stronger foes, but yes, overall the focus fire of a normal pounce would beat out the mobile whirlwind.

 

[HoboGod]

Oh, I agree. Whirlwind is suboptimal, but I'm creating this as an NPC in a Mercenary Campaign. My players are going to be pressed against a wall, outnumbered 5-to-1 after a LotR-style last stand, only to be given reinforcements at the last minute. One of their allies will be a fellow mercenary whose melee attack is a whirling spiked chain whose radius is just short of a fireball. It will be among the actions which devastate the bulk of the enemy's forces in an instant, allowing the PCs an opportunity to attack the enemy's main generals.