Who "Owns" Old PC's?

[jdavis]

'cause to be quite blunt. there isn't a character. There are only players who pretend. more than one player can pretend at the same time. more than one player can pretend at different times.



Here's my scenerio.
----------------
player: i don't want you to.
Dm: ok. (Dm then procedes to do so anyway and hopes he doesn't find another nutcase in the new player.)

(after player finds out DM did it anyway)
player: you lied to me!
Dm: yep. And all the time i was playing the PC you didn't feel bad, did you? I guess your feeling bad now about me playing the PC is something personal you need to work on. If my playing a pretend game with a pretend character that you pretended about for a while gives you real emotional distress you have personal issues.
----------------

And im not pretending here. There is some things that need to be addresed in this guy's life if he gives a rat's butt about a pretend character, in a pretend world, that he pretends to have ownership over, in a pretending game.


joe b

Well maybe or maybe he just doesn't like his characters being messed with. But where do you draw the line between DM and psycologist? And why antagonize somebody for no reason, not using the PC is not so big of a problem that it cannot be worked around either. It comes down to 1. respecting the guys wishes and finding another way, or 2. Assuming the guy is mentally unbalanced and should seek professional help for not wanting the honor of you using his NPC in your world. I mean how did we come to the conclusion that anybody who doesn't want their characters used by the DM is a nutcase who should be locked up? By the same token you could also say there is something wrong with a DM that says not using the character in his pretend would is going to ruin the pretend world. It goes both ways.

 

[jdavis]

The other thing people seem to be missing and maybe I didn't add it in the orignal post on this board was that the person didnt care about the character, it was that they didn't want the characters NAME to be reused cause the NAME was special to them. Other wise they didn't give a monkeys bum about the character itself, just it's name. But as I said a few times me and the PC straightened it out yesterday, but I kept this thread open cause it was a interesting discussion about how PC's and DM's feel about the reuse of old PC's in campaigns.

Any how I still feel it is really odd that a lot of PC's are so anal about thier characters in general (and yes I also play in some peoples games and I would love that the DM includes a copy of one of my characters in thier games), that they don't allow DM's to include a copy of thier characters in the history of the game world. Its not like its stopping you for ever playing that character again, but, as a example, if the character was used in my campaign then that character would exist in my world, but it might also exist some where else if another DM allows you to use that character in his or her game. Now if the PC's were to be published then I could see why people would have a problem with that but for a normal game it just really boggles my mind.

Also as some on posted earlier, what if the DM wrote a story for the Story Hour board about the PC's. Is that allowed by PC's who don't allow DM's copies of thier PC's? This topic has a lot of ramifications then most people think.

Well that is different actually, I have exactly the opposite view as far as the history goes, that does remain with the world regardless, it's the DM playing the character asa active NPC that I was talking about, so strike all my previous statements as they don't apply to character history.

As far as the name being the problem well that is outside the realm of a D&D problem.

 

[Oaken25]

Hmm I'm also wondering where the DM's wishes come into this. What about respecting the wishes of the DM? It goes both ways, as you said. Why should the PC's have the only say? They arn't the only ones who make up a campaign. Again it works both ways. If the PC's are the only ones making a game then they should just write a book and not RP, RP'in is again a joint venture. No PC's then the DM has no players. But no DM, then the players don't have a game either.

 

[jgbrowning]

Originally posted by jdavis
Well maybe or maybe he just doesn't like his characters being messed with. But where do you draw the line between DM and psycologist? And why antagonize somebody for no reason, not using the PC is not so big of a problem that it cannot be worked around either. It comes down to 1. respecting the guys wishes and finding another way, or 2. Assuming the guy is mentally unbalanced and should seek professional help for not wanting the honor of you using his NPC in your world. I mean how did we come to the conclusion that anybody who doesn't want their characters used by the DM is a nutcase who should be locked up?

I never said he should be locked up.. And my use of the word nutcase was hyperbole. The guy however, does have some problems. If a person is emotionally involved enough that the mere thought of someone else pretending about something that he's pretended about is so distressing to him that he will tell another person that they cannot pretend in that manner, then i have to say the guy's got problems.

By the same token you could also say there is something wrong with a DM that says not using the character in his pretend would is going to ruin the pretend world. It goes both ways.

I don't recall, I could be wrong here, anyone saying the DM felt that way. Were the DM to feel that way, i'd say he needed help just like the player, but in a different manner.

joe b.

 

[Oaken25]

Well that is different actually, I have exactly the opposite view as far as the history goes, that does remain with the world regardless, it's the DM playing the character asa active NPC that I was talking about, so strike all my previous statements as they don't apply to character history.

As far as the name being the problem well that is outside the realm of a D&D problem.

Maybe I need to expand on what I ment when I say a PC that has become a NPC. If a PC becomes a ruler of a kingdom for instantance. At times I would reuse that PC, now as a NPC as a cameo appearance in my games, because it is now part of my worlds history. No the NPC will probally not go exploring with a new group of adventurers who are now new PC's. But that character still exists in my world as a NPC, to be reused if and when the need is there. Over the years, since I play a homebrew version of the Realms, many PC's have built cities, temples, or other things that effect the history of my version of the Realms, and at times I reuse these NPC's now to further a plot in my games that current PC's are playing in. For example, one group of PC's have come to a city that old PC's built and they have met these old PC's, and were given a quest by them. It's not like I actively send out old PC's who are now NPC's to overshadow the group of current PC's, least I try not to, that could be the same as using already established NPC's also, what is so different between using established NPC's and PC's that have become NPC's? You know how many different versions of Greyhawk NPC's thier are or even Realms ones, etc....

But if DM's are not "allowed" to reuse old PC's in this manner, then the campaign world would be pretty boring to me at least. Nothing would ever change cause PC's claim ownership on characters and if they leave the game then every thing they accomplish should just disappear or the character shouldn't be touched cause it's "thiers" and not the DM's.

 

[Lisa Nadazdy]

*sigh*

You're so right, jdavis. I should just send my other players home if someone no-shows at my game. How positively foolish of me. That thoughtless player is obviously far more important than the rest of the group, and I should put my game on hold til that player generously graces us with his presence (and his character). /sarcasm

it's simple reality, if he's a part of my game, I'm not going to put it on hold just so he can feel comfy-cosy that his character has been preserved. You want keep your character the way you want it? Then show up and play the game.

Or if you want to have a real world anology, if I were putting on a Bill Shakespeare's Hamlet , and the actor who was playing his part didn't show, I'm not going to put the play on hold just to appease him. I'm going to get someone who's willing to do the job (that's what undestudies are for). In the case of a game, either I run it as an NPC, or another player gets control of it. Again, if they don't want that to happen, then they best show up for the game.

 

[jgbrowning]

The other thing people seem to be missing and maybe I didn't add it in the orignal post on this board was that the person didnt care about the character, it was that they didn't want the characters NAME to be reused cause the NAME was special to them. Other wise they didn't give a monkeys bum about the character itself, just it's name.

OMG!!!!!

good jgb: *I must refrain from visciously making fun of the poor sod. He's a human and he deserves respect*

bad jgb: *No he's not! He's a wanker!*

good jgb: *He may be a wanker, but he still has feelings i should respect*

bad jgb: *How can you respect feelings that are simply stupid!*

good jgb: *There aren't really any stupid feelings.*

bad jgb: *Don't be stupid yourself! You know some feelings are stupid and some feelings aren't stupid. His is a stupid feeling.*

good jgb: *Would you please shut up!*

bad jgb: *You're just like him! You'd feel better if I just lied to you and said you weren't being stupid!*

good jgb: *I said SHUT UP!*

bad jgb: *Telling people to shut up is hurting their feelings.. *

good jgb: * GAH!!!! bad Karma's got me! help me get outta the cycle!*


joe b.

 

[Oaken25]

OMG!!!!!

good jgb: *I must refrain from visciously making fun of the poor sod. He's a human and he deserves respect*

bad jgb: *No he's not! He's a wanker!*

good jgb: *He may be a wanker, but he still has feelings i should respect*

bad jgb: *How can you respect feelings that are simply stupid!*

good jgb: *There aren't really any stupid feelings.*

bad jgb: *Don't be stupid yourself! You know some feelings are stupid and some feelings aren't stupid. His is a stupid feeling.*

good jgb: *Would you please shut up!*

bad jgb: *You're just like him! You'd feel better if I just lied to you and said you weren't being stupid!*

good jgb: *I said SHUT UP!*

bad jgb: *Telling people to shut up is hurting their feelings.. *

good jgb: * GAH!!!! bad Karma's got me! help me get outta the cycle!*


joe b.

I think I missed some thing here?. Or I'm just confused?

 

[jgbrowning]

I think I missed some thing here?. Or I'm just confused?

Aha! I'm getting better at my Hongesque posts!


joe b.

 

[jgbrowning]

well

Now im watching my niece (3) and my nephew (1). the 3 is crying and screaming because 1 keeps crawlying away with 1 of her blocks.


hrm. i would have put an [OT] on this post, were my subject matter really OT to this subject.


joe b.