Who was right

[FickleGM]

I have actually won my argument… in a way.

This discussion has led me to find how tough my shield really is and that it was therefore not sundered. So my action (arguing about the shield) led to the intended result (me getting my shield back). Now do you see why you should argue anything, even a lost cause, to the bitter end?

Well, once it came down to some rules tomfoolery by your DM and the fact that you were pretty much screwed, then it was definitely worth bringing to his attention. Your original argument, however, was not won...in any way.

 

[Moff_Tarkin]

Whatever your opinion I struck a major victory here. My group has been playing since before the start of 3rd edition and we were still operating under the assumption that magical items were no more durable then their non-magical counterpart. My long and ill-conceived argument here led to the discovery of that little paragraph that all of us apparently skipped over. Now my group will be enlightened to that very big and important rule that we all have missed, and it will come in handy in every game we play from now until 4th edition.

Yes there were more rational and civilized ways to go about it, but a victory is a victory. And I guarantee my group (except the DM of course) will be very happy to get this news. We always thought we were getting a raw deal on magical items being so easy to break.

 

[Oryan77]

So my action (arguing about the shield) led to the intended result (me getting my shield back).

So the DM is doing a rewind? Wow, great bunch of players all around.

I wouldn't DM a player that acts like you're acting but the fact that you actually said what I quoted above confirms it. I'd be pretty worried if I was your DM and heard you say that. That's a sure sign that you'll just be a bigger problem player to the group cause now you're even set on thinking that whining & arguing to the end will always pay off.

Yeah man, that's what a DM wants to hear....the more you argue with him the more likely you are to get your way

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I have actually won my argument… in a way.

This discussion has led me to find how tough my shield really is and that it was therefore not sundered. So my action (arguing about the shield) led to the intended result (me getting my shield back). Now do you see why you should argue anything, even a lost cause, to the bitter end?

I see only that you, the DM, and the other players have nearly out-of-control communication issues. You people need to start talking to each other, establishing just how you all are going to run/play the game and why, and putting some things in writing to avoid future misunderstandings. If you don't do so it will all end in tears. Mark my words - you've SOLVED nothing. You've only delayed the shouting match and breakup of the group until a later date.

 

[Will]

Yes there were more rational and civilized ways to go about it, but a victory is a victory.

...

Man, I'm glad I haven't been in a group like that in more than a decade. Wow.

 

[Sparafucile]

I have actually won my argument… in a way.

This discussion has led me to find how tough my shield really is and that it was therefore not sundered. So my action (arguing about the shield) led to the intended result (me getting my shield back). Now do you see why you should argue anything, even a lost cause, to the bitter end?

No, but I appreciate the belly laugh.

Carry on, fellow American voter. May you never dim the bright light of your righteousness.

 

[Moff_Tarkin]

First of all, the DM is not doing a rewind. He made a rules mistake, we all do, and it has been corrected. I know that whole thing makes me sound like a jerk. How dare I enforce the rules and make people play fairly.

And second, why is everyone under the impersonation that me and my group had a big, dragged out fight over this? Honestly the discussion at the table lasted about 2 minutes, tops. I’ve let it drag on for 7 pages here because this is an internet forum for people with nothing better to do. Its not like I wasted our game time arguing about it. I stated my case, the party said no, and I said ok because I wasn’t going to waste game time. Arguments or made for the internet chat board where that’s all people do.

 

[Oryan77]

Carry on, fellow American voter.

Dude, that line is seriously funny as hell. I would love to say that to someone one day. Hopefully I'll remember that the next time some guy is being a jerk while I'm driving. That would be perfect to say to him after he's mouthing off or flipping me the bird

 

[Oryan77]

First of all, the DM is not doing a rewind.

Sorry but if the DM made a ruling and the game continued on after that ruling when the situation would have been different if he didn't make that ruling...that's called rewinding.

Of course I'm making assumptions here and assuming you guys didn't end that session in the same round that the shield was sundered. Whether you consider it good or bad, if the encounter played till the end, that's "rewinding" with some "edits" thrown in even if it was to fix a rules error.

 

[Janx]

I have actually won my argument… in a way.

This discussion has led me to find how tough my shield really is and that it was therefore not sundered. So my action (arguing about the shield) led to the intended result (me getting my shield back). Now do you see why you should argue anything, even a lost cause, to the bitter end?

bear in mind, that my table has a house rule that says a decision made is final. We allow for a correction during the event, if somebody knows an error has been made. We do not retro-actively change game outcomes, based on a rules correction.

At times, an "against the rules" decision is made, because interpretation arguments arise and the game needs to move on. Usually this occurs because I use a simpler resolution method, than the rules have (like doing some kind of grapple or swim thing, without looking up the full rules). nobody complains when it works out for them...


The result is, if I was DMing, and sundered your shied wrongly, and we had more scenes that matter go by, then your shield is broken for good. If we realize it a few scenes later, I might "fix" the problem with a new shield, assuming the player wasn't too much of a rules lawyering whiny-butt.

I certainly accept more correct interpretations when they reveal themselves for future rulings (I don't play a bad interpretation forever). But all results of rulings are final. Only future rulings are subject to change.


Look, it sucks when your stuff gets broken. When a DM does so, he's usually trying to send a message or solve a problem. Excessive complaining about it usually means the message wasn't recieved. As a player, you gotta consider WHY the DM chose to sunder. Was it because your PC would have died from an attack (low on HP)? Was it because your PC was too powerful (you did have a +5 shield, what level were you)? Were you excessively bossy and bullying to the other PCs (because they couldn't beat you)?

I have a whole section in my house rules document on this type of topic. I've had bad experiences from problem players. I don't put up with crap. If I run a good game, I will always have players. I don't have to put up with problem players.