Who wouldnt take toughness and the +2 DEF feats?

[Victim]

list them, i want to see a build that gets good use out of that many feats.

If you pick up lots of mobility feats, then it adds up. An elf archer might use Fleet of Foot, fast runner, Running Shot, and Uncanny Dodge to have 8 speed without magic, and then run for 4 more without any defense or attack penalties (although enemies could use bonus abilities that apply with CA). Keep away. Plus all the normal archery related feats.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

"Who wouldn't take toughness and the +2 Def feats?" sounds suspiciously similar to "who wouldn't play a Dwarf Rogue / Monk?" in the 3e era.

 

[Particle_Man]

While I agree on this point, there is something most people are forgetting, a secret 32 more feats that no one thinks about. Skill Training and Skill Focus in 16 different skills.

This isn't 3e where magic obsoletes skills at the drop of a hat, players are expected to use their skills from 1st to 30th. Feel free to broaden your skill range if your having problems picking feats.

Yep, I like the skill feats a lot for my wizard, who will rely upon the well-armed beef of the defenders and leaders to keep him safe from harm.

 

[pogminky]

All depends upon the build.
Feats for 4e are a little sucky - but appropriately so.

Seems to be plenty of feats - especially for Rogue & Ranger builds. Shame imprvd inti & quick draw don't stack. Quick draw is golden for a rogue IMHO.

 

[toxicspirit]

Hell, I'd trade a couple of stat points on my character sheet (my choice of the stat ) for access to a few more feats.

 

[Particle_Man]

Hell, I'd trade a couple of stat points on my character sheet (my choice of the stat ) for access to a few more feats.

Since there is no ability drain or damage in the game, yeah, why not. Have a wizard of Str 1 and Chr 1 and 8 extra feats!

 

[Cadfan]

At the moment, Toughness and the +2 DEF feats are logical picks for almost everyone because they are incredibly generic, reasonably useful, and you get 18 feats over the course of your character's career in a game that presently has only one book worth of feats.

This is likely to change.

 

[tafkamhokie]

Got to disagree here. I still have not seen ANY characters run out of healing surges. I've seen characters run out of abilities to use healing surges in combat plenty of times, but I still have not seen someone unable to heal because they have no surges.

I agree with the other dissenters. While the defenders in the games I have played have never run out of surges (they tended to have good defenses and didn't get beat up as much), the warlocks, rogues, wizards, and rangers were getting TORN UP in most any moderately challenging encounter.

Most were going through 3-4 surges over the course of a single fight and the short rest afterwards. The strikers I have played with have only been good for about 2, maybe 3 fights before needing an extended rest. The dwarven fighters and dragonborn paladins could have gone through 10 encounters before needing to rest (at least as far as hit points and healing surges go).

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Shrug. Maybe you're just expecting too much out of any one particular feat.

Maybe. More likely I think I'm less willing to take "generic" feats in search of something tasty, (e.g., the line of Heavy Blade feats, for example). I may just have to get used to the idea that feats are a lot weaker this time around, and the better feats are going to have significant requirements.

Perhaps I'm partially stuck in the 3.5 mindset. I'll reexamine some of my character builds. I still think feats are the most lacking part of the system right now.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

and the +2 defense feats aren't necessarily as important to ranged classes.

actually i found that ranged classes lack alot of good feat choices. My character will take all four by level 30