Who's Hype for Dark Sun???

[Knightfall]

I'm still hyped for Dark Sun!!!

 

[Dice4Hire]

Count me among the super-psyched!

With one small caveat - - I am a bit worried about how Epic tier will play out in Dark Sun.

Yeah, world-changing adventures and Dark Sun do not seem to match well, especially considering the mere weeks it might take a party to go from 21st to 30th. Slowing down advancement might be a good idea, or putting a lot of down time between levels. I do that already.

And the obvious solution is to simply not play epic Dark Sun. I might be tempted to do that myself.

 

[doctorhook]

Yeah, world-changing adventures and Dark Sun do not seem to match well, especially considering the mere weeks it might take a party to go from 21st to 30th. Slowing down advancement might be a good idea, or putting a lot of down time between levels. I do that already.

And the obvious solution is to simply not play epic Dark Sun. I might be tempted to do that myself.

At Epic level, mere survival shouldn't be a problem for characters (except for those who die in combat, of course), and I don't think Dark Sun should be an exception. How dangerous can a desert really be before it becomes a parody? By the time you can travel between worlds whenever you like and rise from the dead once per day, finding a meal shouldn't be an issue anymore. (What's the worst that can happen? You starve to death once per day?)

As for world-changing adventures, why not in Dark Sun? If not at Epic, then when? When do the PCs get to rise up and slay a Sorcerer-King or two? At what point do they get to try some literally epic preservation magic, or to even undo some of the cataclysm that destroyed Athas?

I can appreciate that Epic-tier play doesn't fit well with the "hopeless" tone of Dark Sun, but I don't see the purpose of telling a story where no one ever accomplishes anything significant or interesting, and I can't imagine it being much fun to play a game like this either. Why even allow Paragon-tier play? Heck, why even allow characters above 1st level?

Remember that levels -- and by extension, tiers -- are an abstraction; being level 21 is not fundamentally different from being level 30, and so I dispute the assertion that the time it takes to get from one to the other is somehow less appropriate for Dark Sun than, say, Greyhawk.

This isn't an attack, nor is it directly squarely at you, dice4hire. I'm mostly speaking rhetorically here. I just happen to disagree with your position, as I understand it, based on the post above.

 

[lukelightning]

I find the idea of fragile +3 weapons odd. Since it seems to me that no player would ever want his magic weapon destroyed, and that it seems that the option to destroy a weapon in combat is up to the player, then the fragile feature will never really come into play.

 

[Phaezen]

Count me among the super-psyched!

With one small caveat - - I am a bit worried about how Epic tier will play out in Dark Sun.

Dunno, I am looking forward to seeing the transformation paths from 2e being done as epic destinies (Dragon, Elemental and so forth.)

Epic had always been a part of Dark Sun.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Remember that levels -- and by extension, tiers -- are an abstraction; being level 21 is not fundamentally different from being level 30, and so I dispute the assertion that the time it takes to get from one to the other is somehow less appropriate for Dark Sun than, say, Greyhawk.

I disagree. In th standard worlds, the planes are open to all. FR and E do not assume you are still within a mile of your birthplace at 30th level, you have probably visited nearly every plane by then. Dark Sun is different. Not only was the original world (it might have changed) cut off from the multiverse, but the whole campaign area was quite small.

If the sorcerer kings are not 30th, and they have been ruling city states for hundreds of years, it is patently ridiculous that an adventurer could meet or exceed them in the span of a couple years. Just plain absurd. But YMMV.

This isn't an attack, nor is it directly squarely at you, dice4hire. I'm mostly speaking rhetorically here. I just happen to disagree with your position, as I understand it, based on the post above.

Then why name names? The quote makes it obvious who you are answering to.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

If the sorcerer kings are not 30th, and they have been ruling city states for hundreds of years, it is patently ridiculous that an adventurer could meet or exceed them in the span of a couple years. Just plain absurd. But YMMV.

WotC has already published stat blocks for gods that the PCs can slay in the default setting, so why can't some Dark Sun campaigns involving deposing a sorcerer king? Those for whom "epic Dark Sun" is an oxymoron can stop after paragon tier.

 

[MrMyth]

If the sorcerer kings are not 30th, and they have been ruling city states for hundreds of years, it is patently ridiculous that an adventurer could meet or exceed them in the span of a couple years. Just plain absurd. But YMMV.

And really, that's a core flaw in D&D in general. Adventurers get insanely powerful in a very small period of time, and are able to overcome warlords who have reigned for years, wizards who have built power over decades, demons that have threatened the earth for centuries, and eventually even gods and other great powers. Regardless of setting, PCs power grows disproportionately to everyone else, and the only way to avoid that is through a DM either providing explanations for this in the plot, or finding a way to run a game that represents decades of character advancement rather than months.

 

[darjr]

Are you talking about the second season of D&D Encounters, or is this some other living campaign in Dark Sun that you're talking about? Something like LFR, but in Dark Sun? If so, that's awesome!

Not sure now. I think I took the 'Will be RPGA Support in Dark Sun' and the rumors of the play tests of RPGA mods to mean more than it actually does. It might only mean that there will be things like Delves and special RPGA con events.

 

[doctorhook]

I disagree. In th standard worlds, the planes are open to all. FR and E do not assume you are still within a mile of your birthplace at 30th level, you have probably visited nearly every plane by then. Dark Sun is different. Not only was the original world (it might have changed) cut off from the multiverse, but the whole campaign area was quite small.

If the sorcerer kings are not 30th, and they have been ruling city states for hundreds of years, it is patently ridiculous that an adventurer could meet or exceed them in the span of a couple years. Just plain absurd. But YMMV.

Adventurers are special, by virtue of their adventures. When adventurers aren't special, you're abandoning a core conceit of "Dungeons & Dragons" for one from "Peasants & Ploughshares". Not even in Dark Sun can you toss out this assumption and still call your game "D&D", because it's so deeply rooted -- not only are the mechanics of player characters special, but the very fact that there are players behind these characters makes them special.

What's so absurd about heroes, empowered by destiny, rising up to defeat an ancient evil? That's pretty much par for the course in fantasy fiction, isn't it?

FWIW, "The Wanderer's Chronicle" from the revised Dark Sun boxed set (1995) talks about heroes killing Sorcerer-King Kalak of Tyr on the very first page. In other words, there's obviously precedent for this type of gameplay in Dark Sun.

Then why name names? The quote makes it obvious who you are answering to.

It was a courtesy, lest you think I wanted you to take it personally.