Why arn't Controllers Sexy

[Thatwackyned]

I've been reading a lot of threads about Favourate Class and What Class Should I Play, and I'm wondering where is the Controller Love?

Now I'm not one to defend the controller. Well to be honest I play a Warden, so infact I do. lol.

But why don't people like playing Controllers? Is there a way to make them more appealing?

 

[Aulirophile]

Their contribution is difficult to measure, basically. Strikers? DPR. Easy. Leader? Healing/+to hit/+to damage, averaged out. Straightforward. Defender? High defenses/HP/surges. Easy.

Controllers? Damage? Maybe? No... status effects? Well, doesn't everyone get status effects? Minion sweeping? Who cares? They're just Minions.

A good controller played tactically will be the invisible force that wins battles, but less tactically oriented players will simply never notice that fact. Particularly in Paragon/Epic (which most games never get to) not having a good controller hurts.

I don't think you can make them more appealing without upping the average tactical acumen of players. And that isn't really likely, heh.

 

[keterys]

Defender? High defenses/HP/surges. Easy.

I rarely care all that much about hp or surges on my defenders, and even high defenses are secondary to raw ability to pull stuff off my allies.

Invokers make fantastic controllers - it's hard not to notice things like Thunder of Judgment coming up every single encounter. Wizard dailies completely dominate some encounters. It's pretty notable.

 

[Rechan]

No... status effects? Well, doesn't everyone get status effects?

Not to the degree that controllers do.

Defenders occasionally get them, leaders can toss around CA. Outside of DAILIES, you only see knocked prone or CA tossed about, and fighters can immobilize.

Meanwhile, Controllers should be tossing around as many conditions as they can. A Slow will stop a fleeing enemy. Knocking a target prone in the air sends it to the ground. They also apply a lot of penalties to the enemy, preventing them from hitting.

The Wizard in a game I play in also turns into a striker any time he drops Wizard's Fury. An extra Magic Missile a round for an encounter really clears the field.

 

[Aulirophile]

I rarely care all that much about hp or surges on my defenders, and even high defenses are secondary to raw ability to pull stuff off my allies.

Invokers make fantastic controllers - it's hard not to notice things like Thunder of Judgment coming up every single encounter. Wizard dailies completely dominate some encounters. It's pretty notable.

But it is a metric which you can measure easily, that is my point.

And it is less notable then you think, to most people. They just don't see how a Controller wins the encounter.

@Rechan: Yes, I know, that was my point. But it isn't measureable. How much damage does "dazed" do? How much does it prevent? Etc., controllers don't produce "big numbers" in any of the common metrics, so people don't get it.

 

[Piratecat]

I find psions and invokers incredibly sexy. I'm less enamored of the other controller classes, and am particularly uninterested in the wizard. That's a shame, but my expectations don't compare well to the reality of the class.

 

[Herschel]

I think part of it is that a player needs to......evolve(?) past the "I duz lotsa damage" mentality that is necessary in so many games. It is easy to do damage, and an Archer Ranger, for example, can contribute sufficient damage to a party without much tactical skill or thought just by spamming Twin Strike. It's bold, it's obvious, it's easy, it's right there.

With a controller, often when you do "sexy" damage, you aren't as effective as an actual controller. Their dailies will mess up a DMs plans in a big way, but at lower levels they only have one to work with where a striker will be pumping out base damage at a nice clip even after/without dailies and even encounter powers.

Slow is a great tactical tool, for example, but it just sounds kind of 'meh' because it doesn't cost them an action, it doesn't generally come from a power that does big show damage, and it doesn't jump off the table at someone.

 

[Festivus]

I find psions and invokers incredibly sexy. I'm less enamored of the other controller classes, and am particularly uninterested in the wizard. That's a shame, but my expectations don't compare well to the reality of the class.

I am playing a psion in the D&D Encounters series and really getting a kick out of shoving stuff all over the place with him. I too don't like the wizard much, seems like a wimp compared to other choices out there, but then, when has a low level wizard ever really been much more than a wimp? Curious if anyone has really played one at higher tiers.

 

[Aulirophile]

I am playing a psion in the D&D Encounters series and really getting a kick out of shoving stuff all over the place with him. I too don't like the wizard much, seems like a wimp compared to other choices out there, but then, when has a low level wizard ever really been much more than a wimp? Curious if anyone has really played one at higher tiers.

I've played a Wizard to epic. At some point their dailies become "I-win this encounter" buttons. So that is three encounters/day where you don't need to worry. At level 30 I made one of those daily powers an encounter power. The DM actually tried to TPK us and failed. Was a pretty awesome campaign conclusion.

They really start to shine around early Paragon. Also they are actually quite difficult to build for pure control, a lot of their powers have shiny things that make people go "Oh this'd be cool" and then they end up not controlling very well.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, when controllers are in their controller role, they can be quite good, but as many conditions are ... well "conditional" it can be hard for the controller to change the outcome of some fights. If the party and monsters are all cheek and jowl in the middle of the combat, in a melee slugfest, immobile, dazed, slowed and such just do not hurt the enemies much, a they do not hurt the party either.

If the encounter is more the enemies coming in piecemeal, the controller can do a great job keeping those reinforcements out of the fight for a round or two.

One problem controllers have is the 4E rules, which are designed to let players have the maximum actions even under adverse conditions. And the monsters operate under the same rules. Characters can still charge when dazed, which is 5-6(or more for most monsters) squares of movement and a decent attack. The monsters can do this too. Slowed is speed two, but if the enemy is 2-4 squares away, no problem.

It is just too easy for controllers to be forced into the striker role, and they are very poor at that role.