Why can't you have more than one multi-class feat?

[Kzach]

Whether a class can or cannot take their own multiclass feats is still under debate.

The Character Builder won't allow you to take your own classes multi-class feats so I'd say that's a pretty clear sign.

 

[CapnZapp]

If you were a melee build then Prime shot would obviously come into play a lot more than the ranged one.

It's prime shot not prime stab.

Who said prime stab? Not the post you're quoting. Now, this is cause for ...

The Character Builder won't allow you to take your own classes multi-class feats so I'd say that's a pretty clear sign.

Please don't use the CB to resolve rules disputes. The text in the rulebook is what's authoritative.

 

[Herschel]

Please don't use the CB to resolve rules disputes. The text in the rulebook is what's authoritative.

Says you. Have you seen the debates around the written word on here?

In theory, the Character Builder is THE authority because it's coded by WotC and the designers which makes their intent known and clarified by what is and is not allowed to input. In other words, it theoretically has rules interpetation by AND intent of the designers already built in.

 

[Rartemass]

The Martial Power book has several multi-class feats that have another multi-class feat as a prerequisite.
My interpretation of the rules are as follows:
-You can't take a multi-class feat for your primary class
-You can only get multi-class feats for the one class that isn't your primary

Thus as a Ranger, you could potentially take every Rogue multi-class feat, but no multi-class feats for any other class. You also can't take any Ranger multi-class feats.

I see the reasons behind this as follows:
As a Ranger of a certain build, you have access to better powers as you level. You have focused your training in one area ie Beastmaster. You get abilities that focus on beasts which have an extra property, damage, or effect than if another type of ranger took the ability. That is the pay off.

I think there are better feats to get rather than wasting them all on multi-class stuff though. Eg if the character is dragonborn, you could get things like enlarged dragonbreath, hurl breath, etc.
You could take Two fisted shooter with other ranged based feats. Using this with the Rogue Paragon Path of Cloaked Sniper gives you a strong ranged game, and when using the hand crossbow you get a sneak attack as an encounter power.

 

[thundershot]

In the case of my wife, she's an Archer Ranger Elf (with the Sneak of Shadows Rogue multi-class feat), but wants to have the ability to use two longswords at the same time when she's force to go into melee. So two-blade warrior (Martial Power) feat fits what she wants to do. She would have just taken the two-blade fighting style to begin with, but that kinda A) screws her when she wants an archery paragon path, and B) disturbs her archer flavor. I told her it should be fine, so long as she doesn't take the extra skill that comes with it, since she's already a Ranger. It's not game breaking or anything, and heck, I even allow the longbow to be used for her sneak attacks instead of the crossbow because of flavor reasons... I want my players to have fun, so long as it isn't at the expense of everyone else's fun.



Thanks
Chris

 

[bganon]

I had a bow ranger (multi'd into rogue) that used to switch to twin shortswords for melee... after the first few levels, this turned out not to be worth it! She was actually better off firing the bow at point-blank range, because with Defensive Mobility pretty much all OAs miss her anyway. Now, part of this was that I also allowed sneak attack with a bow, though I made it a custom magic shortbow so there's some tradeoff. But the build favored Dex over Str enough that the melee ranger powers weren't much good, and you can flank (and get CA) with a ranged weapon anyway.

If the player really wants to use two longswords for melee, there's probably no reason not to go along with it. If she's really going for "archer flavor" it's probably an underpowered choice anyway.

 

[Rartemass]

In the case of my wife, she's an Archer Ranger Elf (with the Sneak of Shadows Rogue multi-class feat), but wants to have the ability to use two longswords at the same time when she's force to go into melee. So two-blade warrior (Martial Power) feat fits what she wants to do. She would have just taken the two-blade fighting style to begin with, but that kinda A) screws her when she wants an archery paragon path, and B) disturbs her archer flavor. I told her it should be fine, so long as she doesn't take the extra skill that comes with it, since she's already a Ranger. It's not game breaking or anything, and heck, I even allow the longbow to be used for her sneak attacks instead of the crossbow because of flavor reasons... I want my players to have fun, so long as it isn't at the expense of everyone else's fun.



Thanks
Chris

Another option that would fit in the rules is to use a double sword from Adventurer's Vault. It is essentially two longswords duct-taped together .
It gives the same damage as wielding a single long sword in each hand, and allows you to use the same feat/abilities as it counts as off-hand. It also gives the benefit of being defensive which gives a +1 to AC.

Full stats:
Prof +3
D8/D8
40Gp
9lb
heavy blade, light blade
defensive, off-hand

 

[Saeviomagy]

The Character Builder won't allow you to take your own classes multi-class feats so I'd say that's a pretty clear sign.

So... any time the CB gives a result, that result needs to be followed regardless of what the rules say? Because if you go read the wizard's forums, you'll find that it's made more than a few mistakes. Not to mention what happens if you end up with file corruption or some such. "Well DM, the character builder says that my character has 32767 strength now, so I guess we just have to play that way".

Incidentally, does anyone have a link to the thread which argued that taking multiclass feats for your own class was possible? I'm sure it was on these boards.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Thus as a Ranger, you could potentially take every Rogue multi-class feat, but no multi-class feats for any other class. You also can't take any Ranger multi-class feats.

I'd disagree with this statement slightly. By RAW, once you take one of the intro multiclass feats (say, Sneak of the Shadows) you now count as a Rogue. Therefore, you no longer can take Sly Dodge or Ruthless Efficiency from Martial Power, since you can't take MC feats for your own class, and per PHB p.208 you count as a Rogue for the purpose of feat prerequisites.

In fact, taken to absurdity, the whole paragon multiclass feats are useless, because they're multiclass feats and you can't take them if you already have one. That is of course a gross misinterpretation of the intention of the system, but nonetheless RAW.

IMO, the whole system needs a general clarification in Arcane Power and in errata for Martial Power. It's not awful, but it is ambiguous.

 

[Morgan_Scott82]

And yeah, nothing like making a ranged attack with flank and prime shot against someone marked by your defender

You will never have flank and prime shot, they're mutually exclusive, one requires a melee weapon, the other only applies to ranged attacks.