Why Do Batman Fans Hate Christopher Nolan?

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Yeah, but thanks to JLU and even (I'm sorry) Smallville, Green Arrow has made it to his own series. He wasn't widely known outside of comic book fandom.

There's a Green Arrow show? Is it cartoon or is it like Smallville?

I blame the seeming deliberate failures and shoddy work with movies like Green Hornet, green lantern, and The Spirit. They took comic book/radio serial characters and utterly failed to translate them. Sure, they were matinee-fodder back in the day.

Those were all characters that the general movie going audience isn't too familiar with. They have limited a limited audience.

 

[sabrinathecat]

There's a Green Arrow show? Is it cartoon or is it like Smallville?
Those were all characters that the general movie going audience isn't too familiar with. They have limited a limited audience.

Green Arrow show was called "Arrow". Live, and unlike smallville, it has a plot rather than being a static soap-opera. Yes, it does have soap-opera elements, but the character has a mission, has a goal, and has a plan. And he is actively working it the whole time, rather than just trying to stay home on the farm and ignore the world around him.

Even if the characters weren't familiar, had the movies actually been good, people would have watched them and probably liked them, and maybe even discovered the comics through them. With what was done, and the way they were handled, I doubt very much if anyone wanted to discover their sources, or indeed pay much attention to them. I don't know what audience Green Hornet was made for, but Spirit and Green Lantern were strictly for comic fans.

 

[Jester David]

I think a lot of a hate for the Nolan movies comes down to a couple factors:

* They weren't perfect / how the critic would have done Batman, so they sucked. Geeks are very binary and polarized by nature.
* They were popular so they must be crap. The hipster paradox. We geeks are on the fringe so often, some feel they cannot enjoy anything with mainstream appeal.
* They had plot holes / were imperfect. Because, somehow every other movie's giant plot holes are excusable.
* They didn't capture the essence of Batman. Because a character that is equal parts campy intergalactic cop, grim street vigilante, and gadgety superhero can totally be realized in any one interpretation.

But, as I tell the kids at my school, it would be a boring, boring world if we all liked the same thing. The Nolan trilogy is just as valid as the Schumaker toy commercials, the '90s cartoon film, the Burton Burtonesque movies, the cheesy '60s film, or the forgotten '40s serials.
I loved Dark Knight and thought DKR was decent and worked as the conclusion to the Batman story the comics could never give the character. Someone can hate all they want and it doesn't affect my enjoyment. Maybe the Batman in Superman Vs Batman will be more to their liking.

 

[Jester David]

When I think of comic book naysayers I'm always reminded of Superman Returns. The film was one giant homage to the Donner film-and-a-half from the late '70s.
I quite liked it. Although I had to see it twice to get over the initial emotional bias from all the fan service.

But there were a lot of people who didn't like the film, because of what we could do technically at the time that couldn't work as easily in the past. Such as a super brawl. There were the continual complaints of "Superman didn't throw a single punch!"
As a result, we got Man of Steel. The direct response to that complaint.

There you go whiners. Superman throws punches. Happy?!?

 

[sabrinathecat]

I didn't like Superman Returns because it was... Boring. Really just dragged. and dragged... It felt so hollow and empty. And the "Twists" were entirely predictable.
In many ways, it and IJatKotKS were very much the same: long lost son introduced (but main character doesn't know he's the father), overblown sepia tones trying to pull nostalgia, deus ex machina resolution, and with the wrong directors in charge.

All I want it a good movie.
Really.
It shouldn't be that hard.
I'm open to an alternate interpretation, but you have to make an effort--maybe work to overcome a previous version--and put together a better story than previous.
And that, I think, is where most reboots and reinterpretations fail: they don't improve on the past. They don't learn the lessons of the past. They often repeat the mistakes of the past.
It is kinda sad

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Green Arrow show was called "Arrow". Live, and unlike smallville, it has a plot rather than being a static soap-opera. Yes, it does have soap-opera elements, but the character has a mission, has a goal, and has a plan. And he is actively working it the whole time, rather than just trying to stay home on the farm and ignore the world around him.

I've seen commercials for Arrow. I didn't know that was supposed to be Green Arrow. I tried to watch it once. That lasted about 10 minutes.

Even if the characters weren't familiar, had the movies actually been good, people would have watched them and probably liked them, and maybe even discovered the comics through them. With what was done, and the way they were handled, I doubt very much if anyone wanted to discover their sources, or indeed pay much attention to them.

I doubt even if the movies were good, that many people would care enough to go discover the source material. Besides, if you want a movie that is done well, you need to put money into it. A good writer is far more expensive than a bd writer. A good director is far more expensive than a bad director. If you can't convince the studios that there is a large audience for whatever movie you are wanting to make, you're not going to get a large investment from the studios. Thus, you are stuck with a smaller budget, and you need to prove that more money would get a larger audience.

The Green Lantern movie, while admittedly terrible, still got people talking. They could have made a much better movie, right? They could have made a movie, that like the Nolan Batman movies was financially successful. With enough of that type of talk, someone who matters may decide that it is worth putting in more money to make a good Green Lantern movie, even though the first one was horrible.

That being said, I don't think a Justice League movie will be any good. Sure, they can dump boat loads of money, get amazing actors, a great director, a group of awesomely talented writers, and the greatest special effects available, but the movie still has one weakness: it's a Justice League movie.

I don't know what audience Green Hornet was made for, but Spirit and Green Lantern were strictly for comic fans.

And that was part of the problem. Comic book fans aren't enough to make a movie financially successful, at least not a big budget movie. In fact, I'd argue that targeting comic fans is a terrible idea. Fans of the comics are the most annoying, most absurd, most hate filled fans of movie adaptations. Nerd rage runs rampant any time a new movie is made of someone's favorite hero. Anything from the actor chosen to play the hero to what comics influenced the movies gets torn down.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, but thanks to JLU and even (I'm sorry) Smallville, Green Arrow has made it to his own series. He wasn't widely known outside of comic book fandom.

I blame the seeming deliberate failures and shoddy work with movies like Green Hornet, green lantern, and The Spirit. They took comic book/radio serial characters and utterly failed to translate them. Sure, they were matinee-fodder back in the day. So was Super-man, and they managed to make decent movies for him. (OK, one good, one decent, and 4 or 5 others).

Well, let's be honest here. There are FAR FAR more crappy super hero movies than good ones. It wasn't until Spider Man that you actually got an honest to goodness good superhero movie that managed to keep being good. Sure, we had the first Superman movie and the Tim Burton Batmans, but, you can count on your hands the number of good superhero movies and you'll run out of fingers and toes trying to count the bad.

It's really taken until the last five years for super hero movies to be even close to consistently watchable. Even the not so great ones are still pretty darn entertaining. Compared to say things like Spawn, Punisher, and a heaping, steaming pile of others.

Green Arrow show was called "Arrow". Live, and unlike smallville, it has a plot rather than being a static soap-opera. Yes, it does have soap-opera elements, but the character has a mission, has a goal, and has a plan. And he is actively working it the whole time, rather than just trying to stay home on the farm and ignore the world around him.

Even if the characters weren't familiar, had the movies actually been good, people would have watched them and probably liked them, and maybe even discovered the comics through them. With what was done, and the way they were handled, I doubt very much if anyone wanted to discover their sources, or indeed pay much attention to them. I don't know what audience Green Hornet was made for, but Spirit and Green Lantern were strictly for comic fans.

When Arrow has ten seasons under its belt, you can complain about Smallville. Smallville managed to stay on for ten seasons. That's no mean feat for any TV show, let alone a superhero one. It's largely due to Smallville that you can actually get Arrow.

But, I have to agree with Squirrel on this one though. I watched maybe one episode of Arrow and gave it up. Did nothing for me.

But to each his own.

 

[Serendipity]

No idea, having not encountered this particular thing. Being a fairly hardcore Bat-fan, one of many of my circles of friends, I'd have to say that all of us really liked the Nolan series. (Though I thought three was.....considerably less good than the others, but mostly because Bane.)
IMO, the purest form of the Bat franchise is Batman the Animated series in terms of getting certain characters right etc etc but the Nolan films (esp the first two) come AWFULLY close.

 

[sabrinathecat]

My point was: Make a good movie.
If you think about it, I'm actually agreeing with you that targeting comic nerds is a bad idea.
Make a good movie. Use enough of the comic source materials to keep the nerds in check. Make a GOOD movie.

Simple. Made a good movie.

What was the number 1 pick-me-up for Smallville? Green Arrow showing up and telling Clark Kent to get off his ass and start doing something. Number 1 problem with the show: demand for static "We're not leaving Smallville, even though Clark Kent has about 15 different motivations to do so. This is where the show is set, and we're not leaving."

If you didn't like "Arrow", but liked "Lost" or "JJA Trek", then there is no point in further conversation.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

QFT.

If anyone ever needs proof that the original isn't automatically better than the remake, New BSG is it. Ten years after it aired, I'm still regularly listening to its soundtrack, and every time I see it on my netflix queue I get a little closer to rewatching it. For the second time!

BSG greatness may be partially due to Bear McCreary's greatness. He's absolutely my favorite composers right now, and I might start watching a show just because I read he's the guy behind the soundtrack.