Why do humanoids get screwed

[JacktheRabbit]

This has been something that I have never liked. Anything no matter how alien it is can easily cast a charm person spell. Humanoids must just be easy. On the other hand more unusual creatures require higher level spells to charm.

Would it not make more sense to change the spell to "Charm Same"? Basically the spell would still be 1st level and allow the caster to charm creatures of the same physical type as it is. Then you could throw in 3rd level, 5th level, and 7th level versions of the spell that allow you to charm creatures that are progressively more different from you.

This would balance the spell out more and I think make it more logical.


*****************************
Charm Person
Enchantment (Charm) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One person
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
This charm makes a humanoid of Medium-size or smaller regard the character as his trusted friend and ally. If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by the character or the character's allies, however, he receives a +5 bonus on his saving throw.
The spell does not enable the character to control the charmed person as if he were an automaton, but he perceives the character's words and actions in the most favorable way. The character can try to give the subject orders, but the character must win an opposed Charisma check to convince him to do anything he wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries not allowed.) A charmed person never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders. Any act by the character or the character's apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. Note also that the character must speak the person’s language to communicate the character's commands, or else be good at pantomiming.

 

[Dragongirl]

So a dragon can charm another dragon with a 1st level spell? No thanks.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Yes thanks. A dragon can cast the spell at another dragon. It makes more sense for creatures to know how to charm creatures similar to itself before it can easily charm other types of creatures.

So a dragon can charm another dragon with a 1st level spell? No thanks.

 

[Dragongirl]

Well then, when you DM you do that. Personally I like it the way it is so will stick to it.

 

[hong]

This has been something that I have never liked. Anything no matter how alien it is can easily cast a charm person spell. Humanoids must just be easy. On the other hand more unusual creatures require higher level spells to charm.

Us humans are special.

 

[Morose]

Considering most campaigns are humanoid-centric, the regular charm person spells make the most sense to me. Of course, if this isn't the case in yours then of course you should feel free to change it.

 

[diaglo]

the humanoid still needs to understand you.

i know smiling is considered nice in some societies and threatening in others.

same as kissing or shaking hands or sniffing or etc...

most humanoids only speak their own language, even in D&D.

edit: yes you (as a human) can charm an orc. but to relay your message it requires you pantamime if you don't speak orc.

 

[Sanackranib]

charms

perhaps humanoids minds are just easier to overcome for the other races, or that humanoids are just the most common as was stated earlier. reguardless, as the DM you can always change it in you own game. I have a similar bone to pick with the identify spell , here is a throw back from basic d&d with an exhorborant gold cost that only tells you the most basic info. heaven forbid you use it to identify a cure lt. potion - you could buy 2.5 for the id cost! basically they gutted it from how it was in 1st and 2nd ed, but kept the same expensive material component. IMO that spell is more problematic then "charm person"

 

[Skaros]

Re: charms

perhaps humanoids minds are just easier to overcome for the other races, or that humanoids are just the most common as was stated earlier. reguardless, as the DM you can always change it in you own game. I have a similar bone to pick with the identify spell , here is a throw back from basic d&d with an exhorborant gold cost that only tells you the most basic info. heaven forbid you use it to identify a cure lt. potion - you could buy 2.5 for the id cost! basically they gutted it from how it was in 1st and 2nd ed, but kept the same expensive material component. IMO that spell is more problematic then "charm person"

I like identify as it stands. Personally, I don't want every first level wizard to easily know the activations and properties of the items in my game, but allowing them a means to find out one property gives theme something to work with.

I'd rather leave some mystery there.

Potions....no problem, find someone with a mediocre alchemy skill, and a small lab, and they can identify potions very cheaply indeed.

Campaign specific: DMs wanting more items to have easily known properties can use house rules similar to the ones in the FRCS (or maybe MaOF?) that has a table you can roll on to determine if items happen to auto-reveal their properties to the possessor....a freebie option available to enchanters when they create them.

Like all spells, I guess I'd just suggest house ruling until it meets your campaign flavor, if you really want wizards to be the identification masters at low levels.

-Skaros

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think I agree with Charm Person...mostly.

I basically house-rule it already so that you can prepare a 1st level spell that would Charm Dragon, or Charm Large Person, or whatever. More powerful spells can be similiarly altered. It's a lot like energy substitution or something...things that add flexibility, but really not any power.