Why do people hate Elfkind?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm not going to post that WoW clip, and you can't make me!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAjWVHLIuVk]embed the clip[/ame]

Warning: One mild expletive that can be heard on broadcast television about halfway through. (It's a nickname for "Richard.")

 

[The Little Raven]

This was a hold-over from 2e (the elf-lovingest edition), not a 3e thing, and was necessary to kind of preserve in 3e because the designers didn't want to exclude people who really totally loved what elves were in 2e (and they are out there, those people).

Yeah, the worst book in all of 2nd Edition, in my oh so humble opinion, was the Complete Elven Supremacist's Handbook, where were learned that elves do everything better than everyone else (think dwarves are the quintessential crafters? HELL NO, elves are even better!).

Now I've got a foul, vaguely elven taste in my mouth. I need some Listerine.

 

[Set]

They have often been portrayed as the "we're better than you" race, especially with splatbooks like Complete Elves' Handbook from 2e.

I blame the Complete Elves Handbook as well.

I was a huge elf fanboi until I read that, with stuff about human bards falling into despair, and never playing music again and wanting to deafen themselves after hearing elves (not elven bards, just any old elf-on-the-street) singing at a funeral or something, because they'd never hear anything that speshul again.

While I'm sure there wasn't a rule for it, the book definitely conveyed the impression that elf poop didn't stink, and indeed, magically helped grow forests and smelled lemony-fresh!

Reading that book made me look at my former elf-loving self with the sort of dubious 'I'm embarassed for you' look that I would give a furry erotica enthusiast.

The Complete *Dwarves* Handbook, on other hand, freaking *rocked.* I never cared at all for Dwarves before reading that book. Battleragers? Awesome. My dorkhood remains intact, even after falling out of love with elves.

 

[Tewligan]

I cant explain WHY, but I do know it goes way back. I remember there was a fantasy RPG in the 1e era (name escapes me) whose tagline in their Dragon Magazine ads was NO ELVES.

Talislanta. One of my players is about to start running a game of it!

 

[Tewligan]

It's unknown whether orc and elf can reproduce or if they just kill all such offspring immediately.

If you use it (and you certainly should!), I believe that the 1e Monster Manual states that elves are one of the few races that can't crossbreed with orcs.

 

[Bubbalicious]

Elves give you cancer!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrLMob39qI[/ame]

 

[Brennin Magalus]

As to the the -2 Constitution racial ability adjustment, I've never liked it, but if I was going to change the Ability Modifier, most of you would cry foul. It would probably stay at a +2 Dex; but +4 Int, +4 Wis and +6 Charisma. Also I would automatically give all Elves a couple of skill points of Perform Elven Songs and Poetry. But I've sidestepped all such controversy IMC by letting players do a generous point buy system, and tell them to ignore the racial adjustments.

I agree that the con penalty does not fit and that they need a cha bonus but the other bonuses are too much, IMO. They just reinforce the "elves are bestest" cliche.

 

[Defender_X]

I don't understand the elf-hate, I've just always wanted to have relations with them, especially drow tranny ones.

One night in Menzoberranzan


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnqj31VPNoE[/ame]

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So why do people hate the various races of elves (Elves, Eladrin, Drow etc).
Does Tolkien have anything to do with it?


And why oh why don't you change them until you like them again?

I love elves.

I just don't think we need a Fantasy Megapack of Elves- A New Race For Every Niche!

When you look at the legends, "Elf" was often interchangeable with terms like "Faerie," "Fey," "Dwarf," "Gnome" and "Goblin." By making an Elf for every situation, you leave less room for the other legendary supernatural creatures. Suddenly, a perfectly serviceable race- as far as legend and mythology goes, at least- loses its niche and people start wondering why they are in the game at all.

Exhibit 1: the Gnome. Very commonly used as a term for nature loving diminutive fey or as handcraft-loving fey who assist tradesmen in need. That first niche was taken entirely by Elves, the second was somewhat mocked in the form of the Tinker Gnomes...

In some legends, Gnomes were master craftsmen...but that role in RPGs is often depicted as being carved out for Dwarves. (Unless the Elves are better still.)

Sometimes, Gnomes were masters of magic. In D&D? Elves.

Together, all this means leaving Gnomes without a distinct, positive niche in the game.

Exhibit 2: other Fey. There are fey already associated with bodies of water...why Aquatic Elves? There are already fey associated with being xenophobic nature dwellers...so why Wild Elves?

Exhibit 3: Elves themselves. Elves were very commonly associated with being aloof masters of magic- Oberon, Underhill, Changelings, The Raven King, the split between the Seelie and Unseelie Courts, etc. They could have really played up this aspect in the game and left the other niches alone, leaving Elves as being powerful and mysterious. Instead, they're as common as drunken teenagers on Gulf Coast beaches during Spring Break. They've lost their luster, their mystery. They've become common.

 

[hamishspence]

Greyhawk?

I've been reading the Expert set book, and the Master books (not read Companion book yet), and Valley elves were in the Expert book. And both seemed to be more Mystara-ish than Greyhawk-ish. Spheres (Entropy, Time, Energy, Matter, etc) artifacts which don't seem very Greyhawk-ish, including a Sinbad-related artifact.

Also saw Mystics, which are unmistakebly what would eventually become monks, and barbarians, who don't seem to have gotten rage yet.

I'm wondering if 4th ed is likely to start jumping right back past AD&D when it comes to inspiration. I noticed that one of the paths to immortality was called just "paragon" Mmm, the old days, when Wizards got Heal but clerics got Cureall, when clerics got wish instead of Miracle, it certainly looks interesting. It would be nice to see some old-style stuff start making an appearance.