Why do people pretend CR makes sense?

[tzor]

It's not that CR does not "make sense" (it does but only in a vague way) but that it is often used in ways that don't make sense because there is no better aternative. One might argue that it's a better system than the 1E and 2E use of pure HD alone. But it's far from the best and in some cases is still kind of crappy.

 

[Gargoyle]

... just wondering why people don't more often say "it's a rough guideline, I'll just do what I think will work best", and instead go with "how can I make the letter of the rules fit what I feel like doing".

I don't know. But I would guess they just feel the need to justify what they are doing with the rules. As a DM, I've always felt that if I want to step outside of the rules I can do it overtly. I suppose some just feel constrained by it all.

I do think that attempting to use the rules can be a sign of a DM attempting to be fair. That's a good thing.

 

[Psion]

I don't think a "system" is the answer, since there's no way it could accurately account for all the variables, and as you point out, the effort involved would be too great.

Then again, I'm not really asking how to use the CR system (I very rarely do, and I tend to modify and/or design monsters from scratch a lot - which works out just fine most of the time, with the groups I play with), just wondering why people don't more often say "it's a rough guideline, I'll just do what I think will work best", and instead go with "how can I make the letter of the rules fit what I feel like doing".

Well, I can't really speak to why other people do what they do. Some people have a great sense of obescience to the rules. I, as my signature indicates, feel that they are only there to get me my game. I really don't see much point in giving or taking a CR. I accept it as a ballpark figure, and then I only use it to fit the challenge, not to award XP. If I tweak, it's usally to tweak the level of the challenge futher with my knowledge of the group's capability. And from my experience, CR is usually a pretty good starting point, with some specific exceptions.

 

[Delta]

It just makes no sense to me... All this advice on how to make something considerably tougher, without having to raise the CR. Why? You know you're making the monster or NPC a greater challenge - in fact, it's the point of the exercise - but hiding behind the rules to pretend you're not?

Your thread title is a little misleading. The idea of the basic CR system is a fairly good one.

On the specific issue of adjustments to CR, yes, those brief guidelines were poorly thought out, and not much time was spent on them. You're right about that. When I adjust monsters I go off-book and estimate the CR independently as best I can.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Considering we use a system that can model gods and dogs with the same numbers, and that attempt to boils down all of the possible combinations of both players with their feats, prcs, and abilities and monsters with their own list of power and abilities to a single number....I think the CR system does remarkably well.

How do you apply the CR system to gods? What is the relationship between DR (Divine Rank) and CR?

 

[Woas]

Well, with the latest book from WotC there have been player classes that have abilities that are powered off what the CR of an enemy is. So to known an accurate CR helps the game run smoother.

 

[Raven Crowking]

It's not that CR does not "make sense" (it does but only in a vague way) but that it is often used in ways that don't make sense because there is no better aternative. One might argue that it's a better system than the 1E and 2E use of pure HD alone. But it's far from the best and in some cases is still kind of crappy.

That's not an accurate accessment of the 1e/2e systems. 1e, at least, was as accurate as CR IMHO.

RC

 

[Keith Robinson]

I find that CRs work pretty well on the whole. Some are off and you always have to weigh an encounter against the player's characters and the environment, but I've always found it's worked well enough.

 

[Odhanan]

I find that CRs work pretty well on the whole. Some are off and you always have to weigh an encounter against the player's characters and the environment, but I've always found it's worked well enough.

Ditto. Same thing here.

 

[Crothian]

I find that CRs work pretty well on the whole. Some are off and you always have to weigh an encounter against the player's characters and the environment, but I've always found it's worked well enough.

The CR system has worked fine for me too. It does fail when players abuse the system though. It also fails when the DM doesn't know what his players can deal with and just pick a cool creature.