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Why do women send mixed signals?
- Thread starter KenM
- Start date
- Status
Alan Shutko
Explorer
KenM said:
No, with the former you also get a really nice dinner. With good wine. If you're going to get sex either way, treat yourself to the meal!
Obryn
Hero
What you said was....KenM said:
KenM said:
You're equating paying $200 for dinner with paying $200 for sex. Basically, you're saying that buying dinner entitles you to certain expectations, such as possible sex in the future. Rather than it being a pleasant way to spend time with someone you're interested in.
-O
Ralts Bloodthorne
First Post
I knew this was coming. I really did. You get handed The Truth, some of it from on-high, and you freak out, throw down the toys and stomp out screaming "I'm never playing with any of you again!"KenM said:
I will now mock and jeer. Since my sense of empathy and compassion are artificial, I can now give in to what I really want to say.
Thanks to those who felt sorry for me and validated my feelings. Those of you who presented contrary beliefs or expected something from me that a person with Apserger's Syndrome can't do, can all go to hell and eat monkey doodoo.
And I'm God's Special Little Snowflake in my own world. How dare you try to disabuse me of that and tell me to get help. If I get help, I'll change, and I might not feel that everything is my fault, have to grow up, accept responsibility, and realize that the world does not revolve around me. Everyone who tried to get me to help myself are doody heads.
Almost the truth.
Fixed it for you. Was true back when they burned people at the stake for being different, true now. Welcome to life.
Fixed it.
Your parents taught you that crapping your pants in the mall isn't a way to fit in. Does that mean that you should be allowed to drop trou and crap right on someone's living room floor? Congrats, you MUST do some things to fit in to certian circles of society. While wearing fangs, black clothing and calling yourself Baron Von Lousair will get you mocked and jeered in my circle, my habit of wearing comfortable clothing would get me mocked and jeered in a high class resteraunt.
Deal with it.
Not quite. I told you to quit making goddamn excuses. Many people tried to show you that there is hope for you.
But you don't care, do you? Anything that threatens your self-percieved suffering, you immediately assume is an attack.
I don't know why you are the way you are. I have a feeling you were spoiled and lazy as a child, but that's just my guesstimation based on this thread's data.
Good.
Good. Show him. All of it. From your excuses, to your whining, to your martyrism, to you complaints that NOTHING will work. Editing to make yourself look better is lying by the way.
I don't know where you got that. Say, what color is the money in your world? Does is snow singing snowflakes that melt into delicious delicious frosting?
Sorry, but you aren't done till you're rotting in the grave. You may be done posting here, but you'll come back to see if any of the mean people got yelled at or banned. I know the type, attention is your currency, and you have for sale whatever acts will bring in that currency. I like feeding it to you because I hope that somewhere in you is enough of a person to want to change.
See, when it gets right down to it, I don't gain anything. I don't know you, will probably never meet you, and would be sorely tempted to grab you and shake you till either you woke up or got Shaken Baby Syndrome if I did meet you. My only reason for trying to help you is the fact that by helping you, I'm helping those who come into contact with you, and maybe you'll become happy and productive.
You may think you're done, but the things told to you, the ones you KNOW, deep inside, are right, will never leave your mind. You'll wake up, wondering if we were right. You'll act like a childish jackass, and hear us shaking our heads and telling you that you're being a jerk.
You have to live it, not me. All of it. Every last repercussion of your actions, and all of your twisting and blame pointing and excuses won't change the fact that you know, when it comes right down to it, that YOU are to blame.
I don't have to live with your mistakes. I have to live with mine.
So you aren't done. Any more than I am.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
KenM said:
None of which adresses anything I said in my last post, nothing Ralts said in his, or anything at all that called your behavior into question.
Color. Me . Shocked.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
KenM said:
Didn't you say you were done wit this thread?
The thread is long and pretty rehashed, so I'm going to write in general here:
Speaking as someone who, whether or not I have AS, it seems like it sometimes,
it is possible to change.
And I've had it worse than the OP: I so had trouble making friends in public
school, I went from roughly 5th grade until 10th grade without any.
I kept trying, but my foot kept appearing in my mouth.
As most people do, I considered myself sane, and anyone who thought differently
to be insane. You get over that with time and maturity, but it also requires social
interaction.
My wife and I had a lot of relational pains while dating because I had never tried to
form a social (non-romantic) relationship with a female in a group setting. (not counting
family in my household, and I was an only child)
But, given time, and going to these social events, being willing to meet people even if
she had to hold my hand to do so, I did my best to learn what NEVER came natural to
me: just talking about whatever.
We met when I was 30, and with willingness to try (plus accepting Jesus as Savior along
the way), we were married 2 years later. (dated 10 months, engaged for 14!) And now
I'm 34.
And still learning.
I try to remember all the little rules of social interaction. I am helped, however, by the
fact that I'm very verbal. Most men are not.
The hardest thing for me to eventually accept was that I was not in control of human
interactions the way I control of a video game, computer program, etc.
When my wife and I met, I was doing tabletop RPGs very often (instead of a mix of
tabletop and computer games now) with various groups, so I had a pool of around 30
people to observe (many of them married males with spouses who did not game) and
occasionally ask questions of.
Much like gaming, the more exposure you have to anything that you can get better at,
the more and faster you learn.
I don't have a magic formula for the original poster, but a good first step would be to
expand the number of people you deal with on a regular basis, and spread out among
multiple hobbies you enjoy.
For example, if I had, in my younger years, tried to establish comic book friends,
sports friends, TV friends, etc. in addition to gaming friends, I might have progressed
faster.
As it was, I avoided EVERYONE who wasn't a gamer. Wow. The reason that was a big
mistake, is because sometimes the gamer friends you want to meet might live across
town, go to a different school in the same town, etc. but if you don't meet their
cousin who lives near you, or goes to your school, you'll never meet them.
However things go with the woman you had the phone call with, make it a goal to put
on the Hat of Optimism and Patience +5, and do the following:
1) list all your hobbies. (write, type, whatever)
2) research (you have the internet, plus bulletin boards at stores, phone books, word of
mouth, ask your existing friends, etc.) where groups of people meet to talk about
the stuff you're interested in.
3) go to those places and try to establish new, additional relationships with
PEOPLE YOU HAVE NEVER MET.
These aren't small-talkers, these are, or at least some of them are, gung-ho hobbyists
in at least ONE of your several hobbies. (I speak from experience; I had several, not many,
hobbies, and pretty much the same ones from age 9 to 34 now.)
So, you have a REASON for the relationship: it's fun to do a hobby with a friend, and
each of you probably has something to teach the other in this one hobby.
Even if you are the smarter/more knowledgeable, be willing to BE THE MENTOR.
Not a mentor about life, necessarily, but about your hobby in particular. With loving
care, help them in any area *they ask for your help in*. Be willing, and offer, to talk
about any aspect of the hobby with them.
Attend the group functions regarding that hobby, and hang around the people who
are talking "shop." That's a start, to get you used to hanging around new people and
talking with them, even though the ultimate goal is for you to be comfortable around
small talk, though you may not participate yourself.
That is, and I speak from experience, knowing this is hard: *stop being so judgmental*!
That's still my knee-jerk response, especially if I'm tired, hungry, whatever, and it's
not the right one.
So what do you do once you have these additional relationships, and are meeting or
talking with these people on at least a weekly or monthly basis, if not more often?
You let the conversation go where it goes, not where you force it to.
People are often hurting because of a recent happening to a family member or friend,
and desperately want someone they trust to share it with, who can listen to them,
understand that they hurt, even if the listener doesn't know why, and just be there
as a person to talk to.
And, if you help someone through a difficult situation, using your God-given talents,
(and AS gives you a heaping load of logic/problem-solving talent, in general) they may
be able to help you when you are hurting.
One of the biggest lies I believed, that I always told myself, was that "people who aren't
into my hobbies, or satisfy my needs, are completely worthless."
That's not true, even though I spent 30 of my 34 years believing it.
To reply to a point in the OP's original post:
God did not screw you by making you the way you are.
He just didn't make an army of clones, all exactly alike, performing like robots.
The. Glass. Is. Half. FULL.
Stop focusing on how other people come up short to your standards, and start
focusing on how you can help them.
Literally, almost all my troubles in life come from focusing on me to excess. You have
to focus some on you. Eat. Sleep. Breathe. Buy games. Whatever.
But you don't need to do that all the time.
Try being an observer, a listener.
Try honoring other people, and treating them, BETTER than you treat yourself.
Pick up the tab when having lunch with a friend, without being asked, and without
asking to be paid back. "Your money's no good here buddy, enjoy."
Stop giving with the expectation that everything is a business transaction, and that
you *have to* get something back in return.
Also, ignore any other poster on this thread who pretends they are just telling you
the truth about your posts here, when they are not only doing that (cause you have some
goofs) but they are *adding unnecessary insults* to their comments.
Speaking from experience, again: you *may* have some childlike behaviors. I know I
do, still. That does not mean you are 100% childish.
You may not like having your opinions pointed out to you for what they are, but that
does not mean your belief system is beyond repair, just that you should be willing to
self-examine your own posts, now, after the fact, and ask yourself "did I really
communicate the best way I could? Did I insult a certain group of people because I was
not careful with my writing?"
One thing that's always been important to me is people getting a fair shake.
Everyone deserves a second chance, even if that chance must come with supervision.
(such as high-end crimes like murder, etc.)
So, give yourself a second chance: do you really think you can't change, or have you
just fooled yourself into thinking that's the case?
And while I know posters of 5,000 different faiths/religions will immediately post to
say that "it's not right" that I promote one faith above all others, that won't stop me
from saying it:
Every part of my life, past, present, and future, I owe to God, and the sacrifice his
Son, Jesus Christ, made for my Salvation, and everyone else's Salvation.
He's the one who made it possible for me to step out of my hermit cave, where, hurt
many times by human behaviors I could not comprehend (possibly due to AS), I was
hiding for fear of being hurt again.
Whatever beliefs and behaviors are holding you back from at least talking with people
for a few minutes at a time, even if they have nothing to offer you right then and there,
let those beliefs and behaviors go.
You have far more to gain by establishing large numbers of healthy relationships, ranging
from close friendships to casual acquaintances, than you do by continuing to hide out.
Love your neighbor. Whatever skills you have, go and share them; fix computers,
help them touch up their resume, explain math to them, share a time when you were hurt
in a similar way to them, and how you came through that, and who helped you to do it.
Hang out with positive people more for a while. Get used to being positive yourself,
so that when you hang out with people you know to be negative, you lift them up, instead
of them bringing you down.
If you hang out with people who are divorced, they will have a lot less to tell you about
having a good relationship with a woman, than a married couple of 25+ years, who still
treat each other with love and affection.
Whether or not you seek out Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you'll still
find great improvement in your life just from getting to know your neighbors, fellow
hobbyists, etc.
Oh yes, and travel! Go to new cities and try out local restaurants.
Try driving to gaming conventions in other cities, or even nearby states.
Above all, meet lots of people you don't know, and often, and make friends where you
can, whether they're close enough to drive to visit, or far enough you need to email, etc.
Broaden your positive experiences.
The boards were not a bad place for you to start, but they do lack the human
interaction of a face-to-face meeting with someone who cares about you, is not
trying to use you or your pain, and wants to have a positive impact in your life.
Change can be difficult, but if the final result is better than what you had before,
you should go through with it.
And by better, I mean you are a better person for it, not that you got some material
gain out of it, or manipulated someone else. Above all, you should have ended up helping
others in the process of your own change.
Long and rambling, but please think about it, instead of hitting the Reply button.
In fact, maybe people are best off if they don't reply to this post, and just read it
and think about it.
We already have 10 pages of argument and name-calling, don't we?
Speaking as someone who, whether or not I have AS, it seems like it sometimes,
it is possible to change.
And I've had it worse than the OP: I so had trouble making friends in public
school, I went from roughly 5th grade until 10th grade without any.
I kept trying, but my foot kept appearing in my mouth.
As most people do, I considered myself sane, and anyone who thought differently
to be insane. You get over that with time and maturity, but it also requires social
interaction.
My wife and I had a lot of relational pains while dating because I had never tried to
form a social (non-romantic) relationship with a female in a group setting. (not counting
family in my household, and I was an only child)
But, given time, and going to these social events, being willing to meet people even if
she had to hold my hand to do so, I did my best to learn what NEVER came natural to
me: just talking about whatever.
We met when I was 30, and with willingness to try (plus accepting Jesus as Savior along
the way), we were married 2 years later. (dated 10 months, engaged for 14!) And now
I'm 34.
And still learning.
I try to remember all the little rules of social interaction. I am helped, however, by the
fact that I'm very verbal. Most men are not.
The hardest thing for me to eventually accept was that I was not in control of human
interactions the way I control of a video game, computer program, etc.
When my wife and I met, I was doing tabletop RPGs very often (instead of a mix of
tabletop and computer games now) with various groups, so I had a pool of around 30
people to observe (many of them married males with spouses who did not game) and
occasionally ask questions of.
Much like gaming, the more exposure you have to anything that you can get better at,
the more and faster you learn.
I don't have a magic formula for the original poster, but a good first step would be to
expand the number of people you deal with on a regular basis, and spread out among
multiple hobbies you enjoy.
For example, if I had, in my younger years, tried to establish comic book friends,
sports friends, TV friends, etc. in addition to gaming friends, I might have progressed
faster.
As it was, I avoided EVERYONE who wasn't a gamer. Wow. The reason that was a big
mistake, is because sometimes the gamer friends you want to meet might live across
town, go to a different school in the same town, etc. but if you don't meet their
cousin who lives near you, or goes to your school, you'll never meet them.
However things go with the woman you had the phone call with, make it a goal to put
on the Hat of Optimism and Patience +5, and do the following:
1) list all your hobbies. (write, type, whatever)
2) research (you have the internet, plus bulletin boards at stores, phone books, word of
mouth, ask your existing friends, etc.) where groups of people meet to talk about
the stuff you're interested in.
3) go to those places and try to establish new, additional relationships with
PEOPLE YOU HAVE NEVER MET.
These aren't small-talkers, these are, or at least some of them are, gung-ho hobbyists
in at least ONE of your several hobbies. (I speak from experience; I had several, not many,
hobbies, and pretty much the same ones from age 9 to 34 now.)
So, you have a REASON for the relationship: it's fun to do a hobby with a friend, and
each of you probably has something to teach the other in this one hobby.
Even if you are the smarter/more knowledgeable, be willing to BE THE MENTOR.
Not a mentor about life, necessarily, but about your hobby in particular. With loving
care, help them in any area *they ask for your help in*. Be willing, and offer, to talk
about any aspect of the hobby with them.
Attend the group functions regarding that hobby, and hang around the people who
are talking "shop." That's a start, to get you used to hanging around new people and
talking with them, even though the ultimate goal is for you to be comfortable around
small talk, though you may not participate yourself.
That is, and I speak from experience, knowing this is hard: *stop being so judgmental*!
That's still my knee-jerk response, especially if I'm tired, hungry, whatever, and it's
not the right one.
So what do you do once you have these additional relationships, and are meeting or
talking with these people on at least a weekly or monthly basis, if not more often?
You let the conversation go where it goes, not where you force it to.
People are often hurting because of a recent happening to a family member or friend,
and desperately want someone they trust to share it with, who can listen to them,
understand that they hurt, even if the listener doesn't know why, and just be there
as a person to talk to.
And, if you help someone through a difficult situation, using your God-given talents,
(and AS gives you a heaping load of logic/problem-solving talent, in general) they may
be able to help you when you are hurting.
One of the biggest lies I believed, that I always told myself, was that "people who aren't
into my hobbies, or satisfy my needs, are completely worthless."
That's not true, even though I spent 30 of my 34 years believing it.
To reply to a point in the OP's original post:
God did not screw you by making you the way you are.
He just didn't make an army of clones, all exactly alike, performing like robots.
The. Glass. Is. Half. FULL.
Stop focusing on how other people come up short to your standards, and start
focusing on how you can help them.
Literally, almost all my troubles in life come from focusing on me to excess. You have
to focus some on you. Eat. Sleep. Breathe. Buy games. Whatever.
But you don't need to do that all the time.
Try being an observer, a listener.
Try honoring other people, and treating them, BETTER than you treat yourself.
Pick up the tab when having lunch with a friend, without being asked, and without
asking to be paid back. "Your money's no good here buddy, enjoy."
Stop giving with the expectation that everything is a business transaction, and that
you *have to* get something back in return.
Also, ignore any other poster on this thread who pretends they are just telling you
the truth about your posts here, when they are not only doing that (cause you have some
goofs) but they are *adding unnecessary insults* to their comments.
Speaking from experience, again: you *may* have some childlike behaviors. I know I
do, still. That does not mean you are 100% childish.
You may not like having your opinions pointed out to you for what they are, but that
does not mean your belief system is beyond repair, just that you should be willing to
self-examine your own posts, now, after the fact, and ask yourself "did I really
communicate the best way I could? Did I insult a certain group of people because I was
not careful with my writing?"
One thing that's always been important to me is people getting a fair shake.
Everyone deserves a second chance, even if that chance must come with supervision.
(such as high-end crimes like murder, etc.)
So, give yourself a second chance: do you really think you can't change, or have you
just fooled yourself into thinking that's the case?
And while I know posters of 5,000 different faiths/religions will immediately post to
say that "it's not right" that I promote one faith above all others, that won't stop me
from saying it:
Every part of my life, past, present, and future, I owe to God, and the sacrifice his
Son, Jesus Christ, made for my Salvation, and everyone else's Salvation.
He's the one who made it possible for me to step out of my hermit cave, where, hurt
many times by human behaviors I could not comprehend (possibly due to AS), I was
hiding for fear of being hurt again.
Whatever beliefs and behaviors are holding you back from at least talking with people
for a few minutes at a time, even if they have nothing to offer you right then and there,
let those beliefs and behaviors go.
You have far more to gain by establishing large numbers of healthy relationships, ranging
from close friendships to casual acquaintances, than you do by continuing to hide out.
Love your neighbor. Whatever skills you have, go and share them; fix computers,
help them touch up their resume, explain math to them, share a time when you were hurt
in a similar way to them, and how you came through that, and who helped you to do it.
Hang out with positive people more for a while. Get used to being positive yourself,
so that when you hang out with people you know to be negative, you lift them up, instead
of them bringing you down.
If you hang out with people who are divorced, they will have a lot less to tell you about
having a good relationship with a woman, than a married couple of 25+ years, who still
treat each other with love and affection.
Whether or not you seek out Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you'll still
find great improvement in your life just from getting to know your neighbors, fellow
hobbyists, etc.
Oh yes, and travel! Go to new cities and try out local restaurants.
Try driving to gaming conventions in other cities, or even nearby states.
Above all, meet lots of people you don't know, and often, and make friends where you
can, whether they're close enough to drive to visit, or far enough you need to email, etc.
Broaden your positive experiences.
The boards were not a bad place for you to start, but they do lack the human
interaction of a face-to-face meeting with someone who cares about you, is not
trying to use you or your pain, and wants to have a positive impact in your life.
Change can be difficult, but if the final result is better than what you had before,
you should go through with it.
And by better, I mean you are a better person for it, not that you got some material
gain out of it, or manipulated someone else. Above all, you should have ended up helping
others in the process of your own change.
Long and rambling, but please think about it, instead of hitting the Reply button.
In fact, maybe people are best off if they don't reply to this post, and just read it
and think about it.
We already have 10 pages of argument and name-calling, don't we?
Hijinks
First Post
Preach on, Warlord Ralts! Preach on!
Thanks for the giggle
atra2: I think what you said was well thought-out and meaningful, and KenM will do well to listen (but he won't). Don't assume no one wants to hear your view, just because you quote Jesus. I'm an aetheist, but your post didn't bother me in the slightest, because you, like everynoe else on this thread, are trying to help KenM, whether he realizes it or not.
Thanks for the giggle
atra2: I think what you said was well thought-out and meaningful, and KenM will do well to listen (but he won't). Don't assume no one wants to hear your view, just because you quote Jesus. I'm an aetheist, but your post didn't bother me in the slightest, because you, like everynoe else on this thread, are trying to help KenM, whether he realizes it or not.
Last edited:
Ralts Bloodthorne
First Post
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