Why does WotC have to apologize for making money?

[Terramotus]

This was originally a response to the Ampersand thread where Bill Slavicsek talks about his comments at GAMA and the way that WotC is doing campaign settings, but I decided that it deserved its own thread. There were a lot of complaints in that thread about WotC implementing that policy as a money grab to force people to buy books they don't want.

I don't understand the assumptions inherent in that sentiment. At all. It seems to me that if you buy a product, you did in fact want it. At least, you wanted it $30 worth, or whatever the product costs. By my own calculus, taking into account the costs of my other interests, this hobby is downright cheap. I'm involved in a certain type of collecting, and some people in that fandom think nothing of dropping a couple of hundred dollars on a single piece. I happen to be excited about 4th Edition, but I was exceited about 3rd and 2nd before that as well.

Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I think it goes beyond that. There seems to be a deep anti-commerical sentiment in this fandom that goes beyond that, from the people who are angry that they're putting out a new edition at all (as a money grab), to those who don't like "splatbooks" on that principle, to complaints that D&D Insider is a ripoff scheme, to the people who are upset that *gasp* WotC actually wants people to switch over to 4E. Even people who don't actively object to those practices often seem to make statements with that sentiment lurking in the background.

I just don't get it. Is it really that offensive that WotC wants to make more gaming books that are useful to you? It seems like a win-win situation to me. They get more revenue, and you get more material you like. So they might not live up to their ideal fully. Can you blame them for getting excited about what they're trying to do? Why are so many people willing to claim those statements as marketing doublespeak?

Why is operating with an eye towards profitability such a problem? Certainly everyone can understand that the money to employ the WotC staffers has to come from somewhere, and that more books that we all enjoy will be produced if the game is more profitable. Heck, given the number of gaming companies with procuts people love that have gone under, Guardians of Order most recently, and Palladium being in danger, I would think people would be hypersensitive in the other direction. It reminds me of the people that complain about bands "selling out". I don't understand that either.

I suppose part of it has to do with roleplaying having so much to do with imagination, and people feeling a bit like they own part of the game from putting so much effort into it week in and week out. But that explanation alone doesn't seem to be enough.

So, I'm asking ENWorld: why do so many people seem to feel that WotC has to apologize for making money? I personally find that idea a little offensive - most people wouldn't demand a car mechanic fix their car for free for life once he's fixed it once, but seem to think that a game designer should work differently. But this is a serious inquiry. Where does the anti-commercial thread come from in this fandom, and why does it seem so pervasive? Why are so many people so ready to assume the most irresponsible money-grubbing motivation in absence of any other evidence?

Note for Moderators: The 4E forums seemed the most appropriate for this thread, since the question was sparked by the discussions going on in this forum, and by a 4E strategy. If you feel this needs to be moved to General RPG Discussion, please do so.

 

[Stalker0]

What it boils down is that rants on a forum don't mean a whole lot to WOTC.

Businesses speak in the language of money. If a customer base buys a book on mass, then that book is successful. It doesn't matter how many people on internet forums scream to the high heavens saying its the biggest piece of garbage they've ever read. If a book doesn't sell well, then the customer base tells WOTC it was a bad book. Now of course you can have the situation where a book sells well the first week and then sales drop like a stone. That shows a bad book with good advertising.

Its that simple.

During the 3.5 switch, there were thousands of posts talking about how WOTC was just grabbing money, and they wouldn't be apart of it. People were adamant about not switching. But guess what, most of them did.

No one wants to pay more money for something they want. I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if WOTC could just produce RPG stuff for us for free...simply out of the goodness of their hearts? Sure...but its not going to happen So we have to pay more, and people want to complain about it.

 

[fnwc]

I pretty much agree with you.

I can empathize with players that have $2000 worth of 3rd edition books feeling sad that the new edition will basically render their collection obsolete (if they choose to migrate to it). That being said, spending $2k over 5 (?) years in a hobby makes D&D one of the cheapest hobbies anyone could ever have.

The fact is that 5th edition is an inevitability if there is still a market for it, so people should keep this in mind when buying 4e books.

Also, this is the internet. And the voices that are loudest on this (and other boards) are just a tiny % of the D&D market.

 

[Incenjucar]

It's a complex issue.

Part of it is economics, part of it is exposure to people who can use money as toilet paper (internet makes it harder to forget some things), part of it is the decay of in-person community (harder to share books with friends who're in another continent), part of it is collector's craze, part of it is the fact that so many books look GOOD and worth having, part of it is the depletion of free time for various reasons...

I could go on.

Some of these things people just can't help... some of us might have engineering degrees or business degrees and make six figures, others are lucky if they don't get shot at on the way home from the Wal*Mart they work at.

I try not to judge too harshly, though I'm stalwartly against piracy, if simply because I have aspirations requiring copyright protection myself.

 

[Zil]

So, I'm asking ENWorld: why do so many people seem to feel that WotC has to apologize for making money? I personally find that idea a little offensive - most people wouldn't demand a car mechanic fix their car for free for life once he's fixed it once, but seem to think that a game designer should work differently. But this is a serious inquiry. Where does the anti-commercial thread come from in this fandom, and why does it seem so pervasive? Why are so many people so ready to assume the most irresponsible money-grubbing motivation in absence of any other evidence?

I don't think people are objecting to Wizards making money. Rather, they are objecting to tactics that they perceive to be questionable. To use your mechanic analogy, let's say the mechanic hoodwinked you into getting a bunch of repairs you didn't really need. Sure, he has a right to make money, but perhaps not that way.

Now I don't personally think 4E is quite so dishonest as the mechanic in the above example, but I suspect that some people do.

 

[Terramotus]

No one wants to pay more money for something they want. I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if WOTC could just produce RPG stuff for us for free...simply out of the goodness of their hearts? Sure...but its not going to happen So we have to pay more, and people want to complain about it.

Well, maybe I'm just different, but actually I DO want to pay more money for something I want. I'm willing to pay more money to sit in front for bands I like. Especially for acts that aren't too established or for opening acts, I'll probably buy some bit of merchandise or a CD at the venue to support them. I've never gotten around to donating money to ENWorld (though I should), but I've donated to another forum I frequent.

I enjoy the UFC, and I purchase the pay-per-views, even though they're readily available for pirating online. My FLGS has a really nice guy running it, and he makes it really easy for me to get my comics. When I go in, if all I'm grabbing are a couple of comics, I'll pick up a box of D&D minis. I enjoy them well enough, but I don't collect them as such, and I wouldn't buy them from Borders. But I like his shop, like having a place 5 minutes away that sells Munchkin and such, and I want to support it.

I have absolutely NO problem paying money for something I want, because it helps to ensure that the thing I want will be there in the future. Not only is that fact inescapable in the modern world, but I think it's built into us as humans. People tend not to engage long-term in unproductive behavior. And the best way to measure productivity in business is through money earned.

 

[Rechan]

I suppose part of it has to do with roleplaying having so much to do with imagination, and people feeling a bit like they own part of the game from putting so much effort into it week in and week out. But that explanation alone doesn't seem to be enough.

This, I think, is part of it. But it goes beyond that. After all, you have people who get very attached to the systems themselves - people who still insist 1e or 2e are best, won't play any but those, etc etc.

No one forces anyone to buy the books. But if you want to continue playing with new people (instead of staying in the same place and playing with the same 5 guys for the rest of your life) you need to update.

The funny thing, to me, is that WotC bends over backwards to accommodate customers. The designer blogs, the Preview books, the excerpts, D&D XP, etc. Compare this to 3e where all we got was a few preview articles in Dragon. Not only that, but the OGL/GSL is a gimmie from WotC.

WotC could have utterly torpedoed the OGL and GSL (which would have killed 50%+ of their competition), given us no updates, previews, or information period, and said "We own the license, we're going to do what we damn well please," and STILL would have likely made enough overhead to qualify 4e as a "success" by selling more books than the investment. Many businesses pay little to no lip service to the customers.

Now I disagree with certain decisions (Putting the Swordmage in an FR book instead of a normal splat; not putting out more than 2 books per setting plus an adventure rather than give me MORE MATERIAL on setting X), but I don't begrudge WotC for putting out splats or charging for anything.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

WotC owes me no apologies.

Personally, I support the idea of 4Ed, if not the actual details of its implementation.

To clarify- I have no problem with them doing a new version of the game. I just dislike a number of the changes. This will probably translate into me not purchasing every 4Ed book like I nearly did in the 3.X era- it doesn't look like 4Ed will be my game, but even that won't dissuade me from examining 5Ed 10+ years from now.

 

[3 Man]

I have often felt as you do when reading the forums and am glad that you have put voice to this accurate albeit unpopular observation. The bottom line is industry of any type needs to be legal, ethical and profitable to exist. This idea that intellectual property should be made available as cheaply as possible is both naive and short sighted. While a few people may benefit from seeing free ideas many more will benefit if those same ideas are leveraged to generate revenue that in turn becomes more ideas that reach higher and higher pinacles of imagination, presentation and distribution.

I just got back from seeing Iron Man. I am sure some comic book fans are complaining that Marvel is selling their soul to the devil and cheapening their product and whatever. Claiming that if people want to know Iron Man they can pick up a book and read it. I disagree. The movie has earned $100MM and reached an audience exponetialy larger than the books ever have. And where does that money go? Well some of it does go to the proverbial money grubbing 'man'. But some of it goes to the creative artists and visionaries and the industry that they love breathing new life, revenues and fans to a niche market that without the movie vehicle would have gone without.

So please, by all means, make money Wotc! Sell me books and services that I want to voluntary open up my wallet and participate in buying. And use that money to reinvest in the industry that I love that my kids and generations of kids behind them can be where we've been. That they may one day know the thrill of standing in the gap between good and evil, protecting the down trodden from those who would harm them. That they too can stand knee deep in their allies and enemies blood and vicera on their own last 2 hit points staring down the red dragon; their tiefling paladin tosses down his shield and with his last breathe raises his sword and with a mighty two-handed cleave rolls a natural 20 and vanquishes the red dragon.

And he looks into the camera and declares, "I am Iron Man!"

 

[Terramotus]

I could go on.

Some of these things people just can't help... some of us might have engineering degrees or business degrees and make six figures, others are lucky if they don't get shot at on the way home from the Wal*Mart they work at.

I try not to judge too harshly, though I'm stalwartly against piracy, if simply because I have aspirations requiring copyright protection myself.

Well, I would submit that what people choose to do with themselves going forward is one of the few things that one CAN help. But point taken. Even so, I worked at Wal*Mart long ago, and if you work there one of the things you learn pretty quick is that there are a lot of things you can't afford on their pay. D&D stuff being potentially out of their range shouldn't be that much of a surprise. Despite that, I still managed to buy a significant number of D&D books while working there.

It also occurs to me just now that D&D books are probably also cheaper now relative to inflation than they were in the past. My 2E Monstrous Manual has a cover price of $24.95 and a copyright date of 1993. I'm pretty sure I paid that cover price. I could get the 4E Monster Manual for about the same after shipping from Amazon.