Why doesn't the 5' step provoke AoO?

[Thanee]

House Rule
If a 5 ft. step takes a character out of contact with an enemy, the enemy has the option of an immediate, free 5 ft. step to maintain contact.

That's basically the 5-ft. step of opportunity I had posted in the same post, or not?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Anyway, here is a modified HR proposal, designed to limit the problems of "AoO storm", and "no shuffling around opponents in combat":

1) 5' step DOES provoke AoO as normal movement.
2) If a 5 ft. step takes a character out of contact with an enemy, the enemy has the option of an immediate, free 5 ft. step to maintain contact. The enemy cannot take this step if he moved or 5' stepped on his last action.
3) AoO are only provoked when leaving a creature's threat range. Moving from one threatened square to another square threatened by the same creature does NOT provoke AoO.

Isn't that just both rules I had proposed earlier together?

That is, if by contact you mean threatening (could also mean adjacent, then there's a slight difference).

Bye
Thanee

 

[General Barron]

Isn't that just both rules I had proposed earlier together?

That is, if by contact you mean threatening (could also mean adjacent, then there's a slight difference).

Bye
Thanee

Hah! You're right. Well, almost... The rule I posted also allows for other forms of movement. For example, you could withdraw away from a huge creature with a reach weapon, without provoking AoO. Actually, on second thought, it doesn't allow that... oh well, I did say right off the bat that you had what I was looking for .

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I dislike mechanics that force you to remember what happened last round or force inaction next round.. how about:

Can be taken once per round, either:
During your turn as long as you do not otherwize move
or
After your turn, in reponse to an opponents 5' step that would draw an AoO. You must threaten that opponent and move to maintain the threat in order to repond. This movement is simultaneous, you do not get the AoO for that opponents movement.

Draw's AoO as normal movement from opponents unless the movement remains within that opponents threat range.
Note: You cannot respond to a 5' step before your first turn in a given encounter.

Actually, this is a virtual restatement of your version...

Eh.. Still too big a butterfly flap for me

 

[Felnar]

thanee's (genaral barron/primitive screwhead) version looks pretty good
its similar to a system i proposed awhile back that made 5'steps an immediate action

but i was wondering if someone would comment on my proposal in post#35

 

[Azlan]

Yeesh... I had no idea this little rule was such a Sacred Cow.

Only to the sacred cow worshippers. I got rid of this little rule – a huge loophole in the AoO rules – and my campaigns have neither been unbalanced nor derailed, nor did my players ever try to lynch me for it.



The way I saw it (and most of my players agreed with me), why have all those AoO rules, making it risky to cast spells or drink healing potions while amongst the front lines of melee, when a simple 5' step back will circumvent that? (Come on! Must the D&D 3.0/3.5 resemble the Diablo computer game, so much?)

So, I simply said a 5' step is no longer exempt from the AoO rules.

 

[Azlan]

Like I said before, this just makes potions less useful in combat.

Well, my players still found healing potions just as useful, with my house rule invoked. However, whenever they're badly low on hit points, they first spend a full round doing a withdraw, away from melee (which doesn't provoke an AoO). Then, the next round, they drink a healing potion.

This is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to see happening, once I removed the exemption from AoO's for the 5' step.

 

[Azlan]

Attacks of opportunity aren't a right, they're a privlige when your opponent does something incredibly risky...

AoO's are neither a right nor a privalege. They are an opportunity.

 

[RangerWickett]

I've had a little fencing experience, so that would lead me to agree that if you back up, you don't have very long to do things before your opponent follows you. Not everyone here has fenced.

However, everyone here has played fighting games. Who here has played Soul Calibur?

Ivy has this unblockable move - I think the entry is "Back B+K" - and it takes about three seconds to charge up before it hits. In those three seconds, if your opponent isn't already on the ground or stunned, he's going to hit you. The only way he wouldn't is if he didn't recognize the move and didn't understand that you were providing an opening.

Or worse, the 'taunt' option. You should only taunt when your opponent is helpless. You cannot back up 5 ft. and taunt safely, and taunting takes only a second or two. The idea of hopping back five feet and unleashing four arrows before your opponent follows you is ridiculous.

My easy proposal is thus:

Cautious Step
As a standard action, you can move 5 ft. This movement does not incur an attack of opportunity.


Not sure how good it is, but it actually lets fighters close into melee with giants on one turn. Move action to get 10 ft. away, then standard action to duck and weave to get close enough to hurt the guy.

 

[Kid Socrates]

Well, my players still found healing potions just as useful, with my house rule invoked. However, whenever they're badly low on hit points, they first spend a full round doing a withdraw, away from melee (which doesn't provoke an AoO). Then, the next round, they drink a healing potion.

This is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to see happening, once I removed the exemption from AoO's for the 5' step.

Hypothetical situation, if you'll allow it, and not one I think is preposterous.

I am playing Hero Protagonist. Hero is locked in mortal combat with Evil McBadGuy, and Hero and Evil are trading vicious sword blows back and forth.

My initiative rolls around. Hero is down to 15 HP, thanks to a sudden critical hit from Evil and an area-of-effect spell thrown by a member of Evil's party, Crony Littleevil. Hero, however, has a trump card, a Potion of Healing that'll bring him back in the battle to save his friends. Hero can't drink it without suffering an attack of opportunity, though, that would surely kill him. With no five-foot step, Hero must do a full withdraw this round, so he'll be out of range next round to use his potion. On Crony's action, Crony shoots Hero with a standard lightning bolt spell and Hero dies, unable to defend himself or get hit points back in a timely manner.

Also -- and I could be wrong on this -- but is this possible?

Hero withdraws, 60 feet back, in preparation to down his potion. On Evil's action, Evil charges 60 feet in a straight line, hits, and kills Hero dead.

My problem with that is now you've taken an emergency heal, something to let the fighters and rogues and barbarians and all the other classes that can't heal buy a few more seconds, and removed it. Now, to heal when one is low on hit point either takes nothing but luck (villain not following or a missed attack) and then another round's action to heal, or a cleric/paladin/bard has to spend almost every round looking for someone to heal because they can't do it themselves, even if they have those potions.

You're taking the survivability out of the player's hands, making a non-cleric heal take two rounds and leave the character open to any number of ranged attacks, and healing classes will need to do more healing than ever because potions are not worth their weight in copper. Screw realism, what fun is it to withdraw from combat at 45 HP because something MIGHT do enough damage to warrant me using my potion NEXT round? I'd rather be able to do something on my own action that round to keep myself alive.

That's my take.