Why don't paladins and rangers get 0 level spells ?

[Aven]

Um, that's essentially my question.


Why can't a paladin or ranger cast a simple light or detect magic orison ? Other spellcasting classes get level 0 spells. Seems like an oversight to me. I mean, these classes aren't really spellcasting classes in the sense that wizards or clerics or sorcerers are, but i mean really, does that mean that the most minor of magics are beyond them, but more powerful spells aren't? it just doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[Crothian]

Why don't you get bonus 0 level spells? I imagine the answers might be connected. But I have no idea.

Personally, I allowed them to get 1 0 level spell at level 2, and then gain one more per day every 4th level. I also gave everyone bonus 0 level spells equal to double your 1st level bonus.

 

[The Onion Knight]

In the case of paladins it is because they cast some 0 level spells as first level spells

 

[SableWyvern]

Post removed because I said something stupid and don't want to look like a complete idiot.

 

[mmadsen]

In the case of paladins it is because they cast some 0 level spells as first level spells.

Then it makes even more sense to label the Paladin's 1st-level spells as 0-level, 2nd-level as 1st-, and so on.

 

[SableWyvern]

But, only a few 1st level spells are clerical orisons. And if you drop the spell levels, you drop the DCs.

 

[nsruf]

I suppose it is a flavor thing. Clerics, wizards and to some extent bards are first and foremost magic users and it makes sense to let them use a lot of minor utility spells even at low levels. The main differences between 0 and 1st level spells seem to be the greater availability (w.r.t spells per day) and the existence of "toy" spells. Rangers and paladins on the other hand are not mainly spellcasters and the idea of a paladin lighting his after-dinner cigar with prestidigitation strikes me as wrong So they do not get the cantrips/orisons for toying around and the few useful spells of that level are upgraded to level 1. Magic does not comes as naturally to these types as it comes to others, so even minor spells can't be cast in great quantity.

 

[LordAO]

I think they should have given every spellcaster 0th level spells. It's only fair if everyone works the same way. And it would give the minor spellcasters just a couple more spells a day so they wouldn't have to feel pathetic. As far as the save DC's, big deal. You can always highten it and most 0th lev spells are pathetic for offense anyway.

 

[nsruf]

I think they should have given every spellcaster 0th level spells. It's only fair if everyone works the same way. And it would give the minor spellcasters just a couple more spells a day so they wouldn't have to feel pathetic. As far as the save DC's, big deal. You can always highten it and most 0th lev spells are pathetic for offense anyway.

I think 0 level spells are there so clerics and wizards do not feel pathetic at low levels (remember the 2E wizard ). So it's their trademark or something...

 

[Trine]

... You can always highten it and most 0th lev spells are pathetic for offense anyway.

That's pretty bad for Paladins and Rangers though. That would mean for them to get any effectiveness out of their spells (since the proposed change was to lower all of the spell levels, essentially granting them spells from lvl 0 - 3) they would have to take a feat that they aren't going to get a lot of usefulness out of.

Paladins and Rangers have weird spell lists anyway. Some of their level 1 spells are level 0 for other classes. I also noticed that Rangers don't get healing ability until level 4 spells, upon which time they gain the level 3 (for others) spell, cure moderate wounds. Again, their spell lists are wonky.